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JoaGymshoe

STBB #573 VOTE

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..hi Gün..

not shutting up.. sorry :P 

a translation thing likely.. but it was a reason for a late post not an excuse..  nuance ;)

and force majeur..   nothing he could do about it.. but yeah..

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Hi Joa,

i tried to put it in a most neutral way, cause i don't want the both of them influenced to claim the win or step back.

At least i ccould understand every decision of them...

 

As Kowalzki could not log in... it would be nice if you post his answers.

 

More time for discussion afterwards ;)

peace,

guen

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26 minutes ago, theGuen said:

 

peace,

guen

Ive messaged them both .. and will relay messages from Kow if needed..

if this had been brought up right after kow's beat was posted it would have been different..

with nobody protesting that "late" post it became valid imo..

tesla even voted for Kow..

 

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YO Congratulations @Kowalzki won well deserved IMO!  :D

To me the win is definitely legit, there's a subtle difference between neglecting a deadline and not being able to deliver in the right format because of technical issues.

It's more of a delay issue in transport than in getting the shipment on the road.

Enforcing rules is one thing, but seeing each situation for what is it and acting accordingly - gotta be flexible. IMO at least.

Thanks for the votes and looking forward to some fresh samples.

Peace,

O

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11 minutes ago, tesla said:

YO Congratulations @Kowalzki won well deserved IMO!  :D

To me the win is definitely legit, there's a subtle difference between neglecting a deadline and not being able to deliver in the right format because of technical issues.

It's more of a delay issue in transport than in getting the shipment on the road.

Enforcing rules is one thing, but seeing each situation for what is it and acting accordingly - gotta be flexible. IMO at least.

Thanks for the votes and looking forward to some fresh samples.

Peace,

O

Most honorable! 

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Then it  is official

First  IKowalzki  - 39 Pt.

Second Otesla - 36 Pt.

Third naurelle boombap - 30 Pt.

fourth Black Pancakes - 20 Pt.

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Congratulations Zki,

 

my vote would have been

1.OTesla.

2.Zki

3. Naturelle Boombap

4. Joe Modo

 

 

thanks for the feedback, this week was another classic STBB

 

Keep it up guys

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2 hours ago, JoaGymshoe said:

if this had been brought up right after kow's beat was posted it would have been different..

with nobody protesting that "late" post it became valid imo..

 

I really could not believe that you put it like this...

I guess you said in our last discussion that a few minutes later or earlier matter.

What does that mean for future battles?

Are we supposed to count everything as long as nobody is protesting. And when is time for protest over?

By the way i think the right thing for you would have been to say " Sorry bro i fucked it up to post your beat in time"

Instead you used your power here to post it late and declare it legit...

he asked me to do this last night while I was sleeping so it's not actually a late entry..

And yes there is a reason that this beat was late but also an excuse for posting it late... as you said "nuance" ;)

 

@Kowalzki this has nothing to do with your win... please notice that!

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20 minutes ago, theGuen said:

I really could not believe that you put it like this...

I guess you said in our last discussion that a few minutes later or earlier matter.

What does that mean for future battles?

Are we supposed to count everything as long as nobody is protesting. And when is time for protest over?

By the way i think the right thing for you would have been to say " Sorry bro i fucked it up to post your beat in time"

Instead you used your power here to post it late and declare it legit...

he asked me to do this last night while I was sleeping so it's not actually a late entry..

And yes there is a reason that this beat was late but also an excuse for posting it late... as you said "nuance" ;)

 

@Kowalzki this has nothing to do with your win... please notice that!

I agreee,now lets own up to our mistakes and make them beats

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50 minutes ago, theGuen said:

I really could not believe that you put it like this...

I guess you said in our last discussion that a few minutes later or earlier matter.

What does that mean for future battles?

Are we supposed to count everything as long as nobody is protesting. And when is time for protest over?

By the way i think the right thing for you would have been to say " Sorry bro i fucked it up to post your beat in time"

Instead you used your power here to post it late and declare it legit...

he asked me to do this last night while I was sleeping so it's not actually a late entry..

And yes there is a reason that this beat was late but also an excuse for posting it late... as you said "nuance" ;)

 

@Kowalzki this has nothing to do with your win... please notice that!

believe it bro..   clear for everyone to read...

he tried on time and didn;t manage coz of tecnical difficulties.. then tried via another way..  

haha.. you don't seem to get the logistics of this .  no need for me to say sorry... coz it's not my job to post beats for  peeps who can't sign in..

just a favor.. for one ..he could've asked anyone ..  and he sent it at three in the morning or so.. soowww..

as soon as I got up and found it i did it..

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27 minutes ago, GoodFNeLla said:

I agreee,now lets own up to our mistakes and make them beats

..sooo.. no mistake as you can read..
 

I do have thoughts on late votes though..

especially ones that would've changed the outcome..

why do it?

...

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Heavy Drama said:

lol

;)

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30 minutes ago, JoaGymshoe said:

believe it bro..   clear for everyone to read...

he tried on time and didn;t manage coz of tecnical difficulties.. then tried via another way..  

haha.. you don't seem to get the logistics of this .  no need for me to say sorry... coz it's not my job to post beats for  peeps who can't sign in..

just a favor.. for one ..he could've asked anyone ..  and he sent it at three in the morning or so.. soowww..

as soon as I got up and found it i did it..

Logistics are for the admins bossing out on insider ip info.

As in...  yea how many shadow clones does Joa need to run this carry fascade?

Calm it on the Sybil, bb

 

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hehe.. yeah.. you got me..  I'm all accounts on this forum including you :P

 

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5 hours ago, JoaGymshoe said:

..sooo.. no mistake as you can read..
 

I do have thoughts on late votes though..

especially ones that would've changed the outcome..

why do it?

...

 

 

You the man of strict rules. So its weird for yo u to say "because nobody protested its a automatically a valid entry. I've lost a win due to not voting because I was working. Maybe we should loosen up on the rules. We beatmakers live in a place where there is no time and space,maybe that's why it so hard for us  to follow the constructed rules made by the evil  elite demons (sorry went a lil off subject there :D

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39 minutes ago, GoodFNeLla said:

 

Otesla made my points most eloquently.

 

We beatmakers live in a place where there is no time and space

We.. don't..
 

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@JoaGymshoe 

1) maybe you learn to read an do simple mathematics before you bash other people.

Nella said that his vote would have been... wich actually means that it is not a vote ....nuance

Even if he voted in time it would have been 42 for Kowalzki and 41 for Otesla... it would not have changed the outcome...

2) can you try to write in normal black letters like everyone here... it's annoying that you cry for attention with every letter you write.

3) Your reaction to my last post is not even worth an answer...

 

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haha.. okay I'll bite..

1. semantics.. he still mentioned it..

plus I wrote:

"I do have thoughts on late votes though..

especially ones that would've changed the outcome"

that means in the past and in general broski..    

so.. I guess you should read better...

 

2. hehe..I've been writing in blue since day one.. I even write my emails in blue

grasping at straws here..  personal and kinda pathetic..

there's other guys who write in different colors..

just means personal expression to me..

and it livens things up a bit

 

3. and yet you did..

I'm likely put things somewhat bluntly but I shoot straight..

I try to make things run smoothly and fairly

your lack of insight complicates matters..

saying that I should say " Sorry bro i fucked it up to post your beat in time"

based on your misapprehension of the way things work  sorta says it all to me.

 

did you message Kow or Tesla?

no I did..  and what was your idea of asking Kow for his opinion?

what if he said:   I think my post is legit?

and Tesla didn't agree?

 

so..I'm not trying to pick a fight with you..

just.. I dunno man..

whatever..

pz

 

45 minutes ago, theGuen said:

 

 

 

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Damn guys i have to hear this shit all day at the middle school. I want to be able to chill here. An easy solution is if it's late it's late. It is a fixed point in the space time continuum. Also I think the one counting the votes can be the one to make final call. It rotates so no one person does it every week. Just my thoughts. We all are here for fun let the music express the anger but then again this is a battle and only one can live another day so we gotta be ruthless. Just my thoughts Peace, Hugh

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...yeah, I coulda handled that differently...

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@JoaGymshoe

Hey Joa,
i have calmed down. Hope you're too.
So i like to discuss the real topic, cause it may have some impact on future battles.
Facts first (no personal opinion)

Kowalzkis beat was posted late here in the forum

According to the written rules it's a late entry

A lot of people voted for him.

By points he won.

It was my duty this week to call the winner.

Now my Opinion
Normaly i am obliged to the rules and should have announced Tesla as winner.
In this special case i didn't feel that this would be the right thing to do.
But announcing Kowalzki as winner could be interpreted as favoritism. I won't do this for anybody.
So i was looking for a way to end this honorful for the winner, and asked the affected people for a statement.
Hoping that one of them step back. (Otherwise i would have enforced the rules).
In either way this would have been a public decision and nobody could have called that favoritism.


It was not my intention to make it your fault that this beat was late. It's not your responsibility... there is no discussion.
I would have said something like "Sorry man i fucked it up to post your beat in time" if he had asked me.

My concern is that you just declared Kowlzkis entry legit and said that somebody should have protested before.

And there is the impact on future battles. If we act like this i think we will have more discussions in future battles.
There most likely will be someone who think that his case is equal and that we should bend the rules for him also...
And then we have to discuss it. And i mean discuss. So it will delay the announcement of the winner and we have less time
to make beats.

So for future battles i think we should go strictly by the rules.
That starts with posting entries according to the deadline and ends by voting according to the deadline.
If anybody is not able to do that it's bad luck... there is a battle every week.

At least i am happy with the result this week... but cases like this should be an exception.
And if we make an exception it should be made by the whole community not by a single person.

Guen

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5 hours ago, theGuen said:

 

 

I agree 100%. What might seem fair to one person, could actually be unfair to the rest of the crowd.

A similar scenario could have panned out this way -

HUNGRYMAN has problems with his login, but HUNGRYMAN still wants to get his votes in. So, HUNGRYMAN sends a message to theGuen with his votes, asking him to please post them up for him, since he can't login. HUNGRYMAN is in Central US Time and theGuen is in Central European Time. theGuen has no problems helping HUNGRYMAN, but by the time he wakes up in the morning and sees the message, he post HUNGRYMAN's votes 2 hours late, and says HUNGRYMAN sent me his votes while I was sleeping, so they're not actually late. Would an exception be made for HUNGRYMAN's technical difficulties? Would the vote spreadsheet be completely recounted because of it? Would the battle's decision be held up? Probably not.

In this scenario, theGuen isn't responsible for HUNGRYMAN's timeliness or technical difficulties. I have no problem with people helping others enter this battle, but HUNGRYMAN is still responsible for making adjustments in his time to make this work. Also, theGuen isn't the drop off box to cast votes, the forum is. In the myriad of possibilities, if this exception was continued to be allowed, I could see how it might be abused. I don't believe at all that this is what happened with Kowalzki and Joa, but let's say - What if HUNGRYMAN was lying and his votes were actually late and he used theGuen to still get them accepted? Only HUNGRYMAN and theGuen would know the real time these messages were sent and received.

I hope you all understand the points I'm trying to convey. Mad respect for Otelsa, he handled this most humbly.

But please, in the future let's stick to the rules of this battle that we have all agreed on before hand, the ones in the fine print, both deadlines are at 12:00AM Pacific US Time. No exceptions. We have been strictly sticking to the rules recently and plenty of people have been cut off for being barely late. It's not the end of the world, worse case scenario, there is always a new battle next week. The rules here keep everything honest and fair. We should try to address situations like this past week, sooner than later in the future.

And yo! Please keep the punches above the belt! (exceptions: people who troll this forum for their own amusement. examples: jacuzzi guy)

Let's kill this shit, make up, make beats, and be friends, and at the least not be enemies.

Peace,

Toby

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yow Guen and Hungr...
 

everything I said I meant and stand by whether heated or not.. that's including my opinion on late voting
I didn't say anything personal to anyone

what I coulda and wish I'd done differently was wait for Kow and or Tesla to respond...
and just let it play out..

aight I'll discuss...
my view..   
that doesn't mean I object to your guys' solution..
although I  think a lot of us share Tesla's way of seeing it.

so here we go:

your example doesn't equate imo, Hungr.. nothing definitive has happened by this track being allowed into the battle...the vote thread wasn't even up yet.
if a post or a vote scenario would happen in the following way I'd be fine with it..
as it would so rarely occur anyway..  
...
 if someone were to send all four.. five votecounters ( who are  the votecounters excatly?)
his/her track or vote before the  respective deadlines ..
and it would be found before the vote thread or  winner was  posted I'd be fine with it... no harm no foul
rules are there to benefit contenders.. not hinder them

EDIT: 

oh, went too fast there for a sec in the rebuttle..
of course when the deadline passes on the vote 
the one with the most points at that exact point should rightfully assume he's won..

 

now in terms of near future solutions
if anyone isn't able to log in...  send your track to all of the vote counters..
to reduce chances of possible cheating Hungr
and I suggested  Kow he send the track to you next time to post it for him Guen  ;) 
but for real.. I  dunno how long this - being unable to log in - is going to last..
Kow, maybe make a different account..
although I know of someone who's been trying to make an account for years and isn't succeeding 
even trying from different PCs and IPs

oki..

pzJoa

 

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Loop beats. Not age old arguments. God damnit. 

In the grand scheme, this shit is boring and unimportant. 

You're all disqualified. :D

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3 minutes ago, ErbDean said:

Loop beats. Not age old arguments. God damnit. 

In the grand scheme, this shit is boring and unimportant. 

You're all disqualified. :D

yes

ain't that the truth

witty.. perspective..   all good... thankyou

however there's guys who actually do something.. and those that comment from the sideline...

cheeeeers..

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4 hours ago, JoaGymshoe said:

your example doesn't equate imo, Hungr.. nothing definitive has happened by this track being allowed into the battle...the vote thread wasn't even up yet.
if a post or a vote scenario would happen in the following way I'd be fine with it..
as it would so rarely occur anyway..  

I know my example doesn't exactly equate to what has happened, but I'm trying to orient this conversation in the direction of future battles. The exact definitive thing that has happened by allowing this track into the battle, was a beat won that was posted 2 hours late and technically by the rules in the fine print, it should have not been considered eligible for the win or votes. I'll agree with you, it should have been addressed sooner. I'm partially at fault for that, since I posted the deadline was up, but didn't notice your post until the next day. Since issues with late posts and votes seem to pop up every few weeks lately, I would say this is more than a rare thing. So, let's work together to fix it now.

4 hours ago, JoaGymshoe said:

if someone were to send all four.. five votecounters ( who are  the votecounters excatly?)
his/her track or vote before the  respective deadlines ..
and it would be found before the vote thread or  winner was  posted I'd be fine with it... no harm no foul
rules are there to benefit contenders.. not hinder them

The vote counters are Per.du, Supafly Arturro, BarryStudebaker, theGuen, Haq, Detritus Tabu, and myself was recently added. Rotating every week as available.

Who are all the people adding tracks to the SC playlist? I was actually the one who counted the votes on this battle, then this discrepancy came up and I had to hand it over to theGuen, since I had to get up in a few hours. That's how I noticed Kongchain's beat wasn't in the playlist.

I think most of us that have done the "dirty work" here at any point have all agreed (including yourself), that it's not always in the best interest to make more "dirty work" for the people who volunteer their free time to help keep this thing running.

4 hours ago, JoaGymshoe said:

now in terms of near future solutions
if anyone isn't able to log in...  send your track to all of the vote counters..
to reduce chances of possible cheating Hungr
and I suggested  Kow he send the track to you next time to post it for him Guen  ;) 
but for real.. I  dunno how long this - being unable to log in - is going to last..
Kow, maybe make a different account..
although I know of someone who's been trying to make an account for years and isn't succeeding 
even trying from different PCs and IPs

The people that help moderate shouldn't have to deal with other people's issues with computers, phones, internet service providers, lost passwords, freezing MPC's, etc. That's up to the people with the issues. I know it sucks, there's probably not much help from ST Bot nowadays and I feel for Kowalzki, but plenty of people here have had to make new accounts because of it. Keeping the forum as the only place you should post beats and votes allows visibility for the whole community to see that they were posted on time.

With all that said, there has been a little discussion between the vote counters this weekend. Per.du, Detritus Tabu, theGuen, and myself (the rest haven't chimed in yet) all agree that we should keep this simple and stick to the deadlines. "If it's late, it's late." This seems to be the best solution for future battles, since it's the rules that we already have in effect. Allowing late post and votes due to technical difficulties at this point in time, would be unfair to all the other people that have been cut off in the past.

Also a message to everyone: This beat battle is still for everyone, by everyone. Your voice here matters, whether you just showed up last week or have been here for years. Please remember this battle is suppose to be fun, when ceases to be that, then it's no longer worth doing.

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4 hours ago, JoaGymshoe said:

 

aight I'll discuss...
my view..   
that doesn't mean I object to your guys' solution..

 

Guen wanted to discuss it with me
so I did..
you guys do whatever works for you...

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, HUNGRYMAN said:

I feel for Kowalzki, but plenty of people here have had to make new accounts because of it

 

Edit:  oh, I read here in in one of Kow's messages that he already tried to make a new account but wasn't able to

 

 

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@JoaGymshoe

Hey Joa,
i wanted to discuss the topic with you especially
cause i didn't get your change of mind.
As I understand it before, maybe there where some misinterpretation,
you put it like rules are simple sticking to them is simple.

But indeed everyone should take part in this discussion.
tesla did and nella did... i apretiate that.

As i understand it right you are more 
Late posts are ok (as long as the vote thread is not open?).
Late votes suck.

As Hungryman explained most elaborately, we think
late everything sucks cause it causes work 
and deciding from case to case has always a certain flavor.
Most likely someone will feel treated unfair.

I think late posts suck most if you count votes.
You have to track which entries are late and have to sort them out.
And it gets even worse if some people say,
this is different and you shouldn't sort this out.
That's why i still try to convince and make you rethink this...

and not let it go with you guys do whatever works for you..

Of Topic
Hope that Kowalzki get his account soon...
I waited three month for the confirmation mail as i registered.
This forum (software) really sucks from time to time...

To everyone:
Please folks mark your late entries.
Feel free to take part in this discussion.

Guen

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