elanvital

STBB531 DELIA DERBYSHIRE WEEK

84 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, JoaGymshoe said:

 

And you can use your 'flip' terminology as well :) 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, KVH BEATS said:

And you can use your 'flip' terminology as well :) 

 

 

Kris, I do not know you, but I do enjoy your music. With that being said; having put a lot of blood sweat and tears into this battle for the past 5 years, there are some things I feel I must say to you publicly. 

 

I'm sure we've all used "something" pre-prepared at one point or another in our entries. I feel what you've confessed to here after Joa brought it to light, is an exploitation of the very essence of our community. I genuinely find it disgraceful and you seem to speak about it brazenly, which makes it that much worse. It rubs me the wrong way, I think its disrespectful to the rest of us that start working on these beats after the new weeks rules and samples drop. I know what its like to not have time to make music, to make something worthy of contending here. But for real bro, it isn't an excuse. It detracts a great deal to what we are doing here..

 

With that being said your "531" beat is dope as fuck..

 

peace

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..if you had told me that what I was hearing was an stbb track in the making before that week even started..Kris..

I would've never put my time and energy into it...

 

and thanks Saad..   I guess I can take some credit for how that dope af track came out..  it was dope af before the sample got implemented haha...

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2 hours ago, KVH BEATS said:

I think your a bit downplaying what I did. It's a bit more intricate than just adding samples here and there, but it's cool. 

I don't let the samples dictate what I do, regardless when I start. I don't do what the samples tell me, that is just one method. But I prefer to let the samples do what I tell them to do, not the other way around......

 

Your probably right about downplaying what you did.  I only know what I hear, and what you said about using the battle sample in the outro of an already completed track.

I think manipulating the sample to your will is fine, encouraged even.  There are all kinds of ways to incorporate the sample, I don't think thats the issue.  

 

1 hour ago, JoaGymshoe said:

"Sample is released: we all start flippin'.. at the the same time....together... different processes... but from that moment on..
not a: 'here's one I prepared earlier'  ..sticking the sample in say a year old track.. where's the line?" 

 

What Joa said above, and what I said in my first post on this is the issue.  Where is the line?  I'm sure that we all have many beats that we made outside of the battle that didn't use samples, only instruments.  It would be easy to incorporate the battle sample into them and call it a battle flip. Doesn't make it so.  

The time limits and the release of the sample for all to use, and the submission deadlines, and all the rest of the rules that go into what we do here are there to keep things fair.

 

I said my piece anyways.

  

 

 

 

 

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Word guys. Push on and make music.

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Congrats Elanvital! Call me a noob but I hadn't heared about Delia Derbyshir. So I learned some new interesting things! This weeks been a real challenge for me, as synths is not my game(basically learning all by entering the STBB challenges). That's why I choose to go Early Rave on this one!!!

 

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i will never use a drum break again....

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What is this I have stumbled into oh well we get this way as a community as the grand old man of the beat battles I have seen this argument before but we will push on and we will make dope beats family with that being said enjoy my noise and let me know what you think peace

 

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I can see Joa's perspective and see KVH's too. I think everyone's workflow is different, and thats a cool thing - I think where I side more with Joa here is if the only flip of the supplied sample is throwing it in the outro rather that utilising across the whole joint (if thats what you did). I can see how that rubs ppl up the wrong way.

Incidentally, I don't generally use pre-prepped stuff, bar an occasional drum loop or unused prior riff etc but I do usually come into a battle with a specific style I want to run with, usually before the sample is released. I tend to want to try *something* different each week - different technique, genre or tool. It's all about experimenting and learning. I've come into weeks before wanting to do a chiptune joint, or balkan beats, or 80s, or old school or even reggae. Sometimes I've heard the sample and elected not to enter as I can't really incorporate it. It's rare that the sample dictates what I do, beyond the rules (like the portishead week where it did influence it).

I guess what I'm saying is - horses for courses when it comes to how you approach the battle.

But using a honed and finished track and just layering the sample into a segment will always feel a little...I dunno...shady

Anyway, peace and love and all that shit

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Here's my entry. All samples aside from drums and volca synth bass line.

Had to pull it all together in about 2hrs from start to finish, so bit rushed this week. Had actually booked tomorrow off work and intended to spend the day working on this but a death in the family coupled with me breaking my hand whilst jumping over an advertising hoarding at a football match and losing my footing (I'm not as agile as 20yrs ago, I've found), I have family get togethers and hospital visits to deal with so needed to get it done.

Don't ya just love backstories? Not that anyone reads them!

 

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Congrats on the win Elanvital, goodstuff! And nice theme, rules and samples this week, kudos!

This thread seems to be a bit hardout right now, so I have to post my entry then reread...

I have used A and C. and no outside anything. not even drums! Ha!

 

 

 

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I think it definitely goes against the spirit of the beat battles to have the song made in advance and just throw in a sample afterwards so it fits the rules.

If this were about showcasing songs we made a while ago then this would be the "Weekly Song Spotlight" instead of a weekly "Beat Battle".

If the sample isn't at least informing the song and what ends up getting made, then what's the point of having the samples in the first place? What's the point of having the special rules each week if the song was made weeks, months, years in advance? What's the point of having a deadline for each week if the song was made before the competition started?

If you're making the song over a longer period of time well in advance, it just seems to go against the purpose of having this "battle", especially if your song has had months of polish and others have been whipped up in 3 days. I usually get mine done in an afternoon, and I'm going up against a song somebody's been workshopping for weeks? Seems a lil skewed, is all

These beat battles started out in the very beginning with entries not being allowed to use anything BUT the samples provided, which means the way this competition was from the beginning meant that you had to make the song that week.

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I've never said anything about months. The furthest back I've gone is a week if you count drums, or maybe a bit longer if you count writing harmonies as a violation of the spirit. (I've possibly even recycled drums from long ago) I can get why some of you are sour about all this. I guess we can just agree to disagree. 

This is likely a bad week to reveal my strategy due to the fact that it's the only time I've only used the sample in the outro.

 

Super fly, to me the point is using samples as instrumentation or timbres. The result would be the same regardless of when starting. I very rarely chop up someone's song and maintain a similar harmonic structure because it's a bit insulting to the original artist imo, but nothing wrong with that of course.

 

also the way the competition was originally absolutely doesn't mean you have to start that week. If you write a song that has a 2 5 1 for example and a chop contains a major triad you can use hat one chop over all three of those chords just by pitching in different directions.  For example if it's an uinverted B flat major (Bb D F) you can do many things that will work. Let's say your 2 5 1 is in C, (D-7, G7, C Maj7) you just simply raise the chop up 2 semitones to fit the C major chord, you could lower it a minor third (3 semitones) to fit the G7, etc. then just find single note chops to act as the 7ths or any necessary extensions.

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sample usage and production technique is one thing.. but what about the weekly theme that influences the vibe / style each the track?

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16 minutes ago, maßmatazz said:

sample usage and production technique is one thing.. but what about the weekly theme that influences the vibe / style each the track?

Of course decisions would need to be made to comply with special rules. In many instances I just make skeletons, so they are very adaptable. Again I'm just talking harmonys and drums most of the time. Of course I still spend a great amount of time after the initial post making sure everything complies.

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On 06/05/2017 at 10:48 PM, JoaGymshoe said:

..So here's something that happened to me this week which I wanna share with you..

 it pains me I must admit... but the person in question basically dared me to say it here..

and is so convinced of being right that I feel I do need to say it in the hope of him realising what he's doing isn't  in the spirit of this contest

 

 

This person sent me a track earlier this week for feedback... and I've been giving it that...

the track consisted of piano melodies, a drumbeat and a bassline...

I heard the track getting better and better during the week as new drafts were sent...

intro and outro 'skits'  were added... mix improved.. melodies added etc...

then today I suddenly heard the track on the forum!..   with the sample added to the outro

I confronted him on it..  the person says it's his usual way of working...

clearly we disagree on the matter...

to me the flipping the sample means using it as a starting point.. from the moment it's been released...

not incorporating it in an existing track...

personally I feel duped... and I'm disappointed to the degree I won't even say your name bro..

 

another thing..  go over the time limit..  lable your track non-entry

 

there's more stuff going on unrelated to this which might be brought under the attention later...

 

yes.. keep it fun and don't take this stuff so seriously..  hmmm..  seems I can't  

 

pz Joa

 

personally I did use a skeleton , main sample and basic beat like 3 years ago and felt bad about it. So you do it in the spirit of live beat battles. that s why rules are important..

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13 minutes ago, SebPmtl said:

personally I did use a skeleton , main sample and basic beat like 3 years ago and felt bad about it. So you do it in the spirit of live beat battles. that s why rules are important..

 

...yeah, weird thing is... there's nothing in the rules really about this..   

how would you word it?..  No previously made  stuff allowed...?..

 and how to make it watertight?.. it will always come down to the integrity and honesty of the beatmaker

 

5 hours ago, Supafly Arturro said:

I think it definitely goes against the spirit of the beat battles to have the song made in advance and just throw in a sample afterwards so it fits the rules.

These beat battles started out in the very beginning with entries not being allowed to use anything BUT the samples provided, which means the way this competition was from the beginning meant that you had to make the song that week.

..good point

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No previously made stuff doesn't really work because anyone who uses breaks likely found them in advance. 

 

Im constantly searching for drum sounds in my free time and writing grooves. So I'm not allowed to incorporate those?

 

as far as harmonies I'm also always writing those in my free time, I'm not sure how i could avoid not using them. Melodies yea I can see that, but those are also very useable in most cases.

 

 

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1 hour ago, KVH BEATS said:

No previously made stuff doesn't really work because anyone who uses breaks likely found them in advance. 

 

Im constantly searching for drum sounds in my free time and writing grooves. So I'm not allowed to incorporate those?

 

as far as harmonies I'm also always writing those in my free time, I'm not sure how i could avoid not using them. Melodies yea I can see that, but those are also very useable in most cases.

 

 

No one is saying that you shouldn't be able to incorporate some pre thought out grooves, harmonies, melodies, breaks and or drums. The issue here is making a "skeleton" of a full track, a track that will become a submission to a weekly on the fly competition, where most of us here usually produce the majority of the beats we post AFTER the samples and rules have dropped.

Be honest, your 531 was virtually the same as what you've posted even before this weeks battle went up.. wasn't it?

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3 minutes ago, saadyah tz▾i said:

No one is saying that you shouldn't be able to incorporate some pre thought out grooves, harmonies, melodies, breaks and or drums. The issue here is making a "skeleton" of a full track, a track that will become a submission to a weekly on the fly competition, where most of us here usually produce the majority of the beats we post AFTER the samples and rules have dropped.

Be honest, your 531 was virtually the same as what you've posted even before this weeks battle went up.. wasn't it?

Yea the first two minutes, I already stated in my original post that I used the sample in the outro. 

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Sample A + B / outside drums and bass - I couldn't resist - fell in love with the rhodes..

all this looks to me like ..

 

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11 hours ago, KVH BEATS said:

No previously made stuff doesn't really work because anyone who uses breaks likely found them in advance. 

we chop'em up fresh though right?

 

Im constantly searching for drum sounds in my free time and writing grooves. So I'm not allowed to incorporate those?

how about writing a groove especially for stbb in the free time you have after the sample gets posted ;)

as far as harmonies I'm also always writing those in my free time, I'm not sure how i could avoid not using them. Melodies yea I can see that, but those are also very useable in most cases.

uhm... I'm pretty sure you could avoid using them..  if you wanted to..

I know you can.. coz there's the :  no outside intrument rule sometimes too

 

by now it's clear you insist on seeing things differently than most here..

to us the challenge is to create something from scratch with the given samples and ruleset..

not gonna be sainctimonious.. like I wrote before.. I think a lot of us mighta pulled a drumbeat off the shelf or something like that...

but to use this method as a standard modus operandi is just not  what's meant 

 

this next bit is 'for argument's sake'  

'flipping the sample'    

you are a musician no doubt..

and as nice as your tracks can be...  taking a  milli snippet of a sample...getting it in key.. and have it as a stab in the background..

while you play piana and bass...  I don't know man.. it's just not flipping the sample to me...

I'm not attacking you on this...  it's certainly a way to handle business...

but to me flipping the sample is either to have it recognizable..  or make all ( most of ) your sounds from it..

 

I'm happy to hear a lot of you agree on this matter..

I don't really see a way to change the rules without hindering the creative proces.. apart from: no outside instruments rule

so everybody's gotta do what they gotta do I suppose..

 

pz Joa

 

 

 

 

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Yo elanvital, first of all congrats on winning the battle and second...for sharing the story of Delia Derbyshire. I never knew about this pioneer in music until now. I'm always interested in learning the history of music and her story was cool to learn. Anyway, great theme for the week. I started with flipping Sample A+B but ended up scratching that beat (the rhodes were too smooth and silky lol) and so I made a brand new one with A+C. Hope ya'll like. Peace!

 

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WS000040.jpg

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.. just sayin

daily-afternoon-randomness-49-photos-24.

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My first time entering STBB. Great choice of sample, was interesting learning about Delia and her contribution to electronic sounds. I used A and the vocals from C, also outside drums and bass.

 

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