LeftFoot1st

RECYCLING SAMPLES....

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What's your opinion on people taking samples used by cats like Pete Rock, Primo, Madlib etc and making new beats out of the same exact loop used....I've been seeing people doing this lately....like, the only difference is drums and percussion...why do people do that?....maybe they didn't know it was already used, but it's hard to believe that when half ya tracks come from other peoples sample choices.

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It's whack. It's like sloppy seconds. Find your own shit or flip it in an original way. I always try to find if certain samples I'm planning on using have been used before and if so in what capacity. If I can't bring anything new to it (besides drums) then I dont fuck with it. I'm not a cover artist...

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It's whack. It's like sloppy seconds. Find your own shit or flip it in an original way. I always try to find if certain samples I'm planning on using have been used before and if so in what capacity. If I can't bring anything new to it (besides drums) then I dont fuck with it. I'm not a cover artist...

Facts, I been seeing a lot of sample biting going down recently... like, just plain obvious shit.. it's cool if you use the sample, but the least you can do is chop it up a bit and omit some parts from the loops... even if it's played out the same exact way.. just chop some parts out so it's not the entire loops anymore....some people just lazy ... the song that made me write this took the loop and made the shit lofi and had cool percussion and all that, but im just like... why? go to another track on that album. go deeper into the song.

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This mindset is retarded. If you find a dope sample, use it how you want to use it. Shit, you can even try and make it hotter than the producer who sampled it originally. Even Dilla would use Pete Rocks samples. Maybe he wouldn't release the beats, but he would do it to practice and step his shit up. Plenty of tracks are sampled by multiple cats.

Are you making money doing it? Or are you doing it for fun? What does it really matter? It should be for your personal enjoyment first and foremost. I came across Dilla's Heroin Joint sample and tried to recreate the beat, so I can learn.

Also, these are samples. They were originally created by someone else. 75% of music out right now, producers aren't clearing samples. So do you look at that as biting/stealing/copyright infringement?

How can using a sample someone else has used already bother you more than copyright infringement?

Apollo Brown flipped the CREAM sample on Dice Game, and I thought that shit was hot.

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OG: "Inside My Love" by Minnie Riperton

SAMPLED: "Lyrics 2 Go" by A Tribe Called Quest produced by Ali Shaheed Muhammad

SAMPLED: "Look of Love" by Slum Village produced by J Dilla

SAMPLED: "Track 4" produced by by J Dilla

SAMPLED: "Can't Hold The Torch" by Busta Rhymes produced by J Dilla

My belief is if the sample sounds good enough to inspire you to create some other other shit, then by all means use it. Dilla reused samples all the time. I personally think that people who beef over who flipped what first is probably low-key angry that they didn't discover the sample in the first place.

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I'm definitely with soulREBEL on this one.

I don't see anything wrong with reusing samples. Dilla did it, Madlib has done it too (the Superman Lover sample on Broad Factor comes to mind for example, shit's been used by Biggie, Ice-Cube, Snoop & Redman before Quas ever came out).

Shit if you're down with Damu The Fudgemunk look it up, all the samples he uses have been used in a classic before, but it doesn't make his music any less dope to me.

I mean if you ever used impeach the president or funky drummer (who the hell hasn't ?) you can't go out and say reusing samples is biting without being an hypocrite IMHO. What makes it ok for drums but not for melodic samples ?
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I've used previously-used melodic samples before (shit, I STILL do!). It's all about what YOU do with it. Even if you outright recreate the other producer's style it's like you're paying homage to them while learning new creative ways to manipulate the sample. For instance, I personally recreated DJ Premier's "Moment of Truth" beat after spending time studying how he cut the sample up and laid the drums. I didn't (and won't for obvious reasons) ever post it because I'm a big fan and supporter of Preemo. But, if I was to take the same Billy Paul "Let's Fall In Love All Over" sample, same section and everything, and then add my own personal touch to it (drum program, bassline; etc.), then critics have no room to complain or hate. Like Low Hiss said, go peep out just about ANY Damu beat and you'll see what I'm talking about. Prime example of this is Damu the Fudgemunk's Madvillain ReVISION joint.

Same sample, different flip.

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Yeah, I already understand all of what you guys are saying...but just to clarify what i'm saying.

1) i'm not saying you can't sample the same track someone else sampled... what i'm saying is taking the exact same part and looping it the exact same way and playing drums on it... isn't really creative...especially now a days where you can just go to whosampled and find the exact sample and location.

2) Primo and Pete Rock is cool friends and they inspire each other, but you don't really see them grabbing the same track right after the other dude used it and taking the same part.... they go somewhere else and try and be like, "yo, you aint peep that part right... ha"

3)I guess i'm just downplaying that aspect of flipping a sample... someone else already flipped... unless you slowing it down or speeding it up... making it super lo fi or something... no point you should go there when 10 other producers been there.....the least you can do is if you know they sampled 31 seconds to 35 seconds into the song... go a little further.. a little earlier.. do something else from the song... that's what I try to do..

4) Don't give a shit about copyright infringement... i'm out here having fun.

but after all your conversations.. i'm about to just go for mine and start doing the same joints too then lol..jk.. it's w.e... if i'm inspired by it like dude said.. i'll touch it.. if not.. no point....but i'll always strive to go a little further and touch something else in the song.

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I'm on Damu side... i like what he does... he doesn't take the exact same loop and loop the shit....he actually chops it and tries to make something else out it.... I think you guys think i'm saying to never touch to song again... i'm saying don't do it the way that person did it...especially loops...its just not something respectable in my opinion.... but the minute you take the loop and chop it into a few pieces... you good to go... don't loop it is how I feel.... try to be a little more creative.. strive for that creativeness...if you just sitting at home on whosampled and looping everybody elses samples.. you not really progressing.. you're not training your own ear...

there are days I don't make a beat at all cause i'm trying to find something, but don't really like anything...then there are days like today where I heard a sample in something I came across and said.. ok producers been touching 1 to 13 seconds... the obvious flip...so i'm gonna go grab some shit in the middle of this record and make something else.

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To me dope music is original music. So I enjoy listening to same samples flip, but when someone already used it and you just change the percussions you're limiting your creativity.

Actually I also have some sort of reverence for my fav producers, so I tend not to touch samples they've already used. Plus, I see sampling as a great occasion to discover new dope music that has been released in the 60s or 70s and was not considered a major hit. This pleasure of discovery fades away if I'd take samples other people have already been fucking with.

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I think that reusing already used samples can actually be quite interesting in the sense that it can push you to create something different from what you've heard. I will also add that just changing the drums can change the whole vibe of the track, even if you're using the exact same loop.

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On 5/6/2015 at 8:27 PM, LeftFoot1st said:

What's your opinion on people taking samples used by cats like Pete Rock, Primo, Madlib etc and making new beats out of the same exact loop used....I've been seeing people doing this lately....like, the only difference is drums and percussion...why do people do that?....maybe they didn't know it was already used, but it's hard to believe that when half ya tracks come from other peoples sample choices.

i mean if you have a creative way to use the sample then i would say go for it. just because the sample has already been used doesn't mean you can't use it again in a different way. that's literally what sampling is in the first place. taking a piece of music and giving it a new life.

BUT if you're just changing percussion and/or pretty much making a remake of another beat that's already been created and just changing it slightly then nah that's dumb. i mean, you can go ahead and do it, but you're not gunna get anywhere in the music industry doing shit like that. People are gunna think it's whack, you're not gunna get fans, etc., and for good reason. you're not doing anything special.

 

On 8/22/2017 at 11:11 PM, Instrmntl Beats said:

Listen up...
FUCK THAT DUMB SHIT...
Sample whatever the fuck you want. 
However you fucking want. 
Any motherfucking way you want.
If it's dope it's dope...

this basically. if it's dope it's dope. it won't be dope if you're copying what other producers are doing, however.

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here's a good one: what do you guys think about second-generation sampling?

by this i mean beats that literally sample another beat lol.

the most prevalent example i can think of in my head is "All Gold Everything" by Trinidad James, sampling a Too $hort track from like 10 years before, just slowed down to half-speed.

part of me thinks it's the whackest, most un-creative shit anyone could pull ever...but then the philosopher in me thinks about why i get so angry at the idea.  i mean, it's music being re-interpreted, right?  that's the definition of a sample...so in theory, you could very easily argue that this is the logical step for *some hip-hop production.  as a community/industry, we've exhausted numerous genres of music -- sometimes even the same fucking samples, as discussed above in the thread.

but just like those should be treated on a case by case basis, part of me thinks we should treat second-gen sampling the same way.  i mean, sometimes the shit is dope and sometimes it isn't; that's just music.

with that said though, i imagine in my head an example of someone sampling, let's say the Accordion beat -- and just kinda slowing it down to half speed, maybe adding a high-pass filter and a few extra bass notes.  could that work?  or is it blasphemy lol?  old heads were dead wrong about the influence of trap music on hip-hop, as we can clearly see new cats coming up specifically doing everything "wrong" just to piss them off haha...so i wonder if this is one of those things too.

like will someone 20 years from now sample All Gold Everything, and speed it back up to sound normal?  is that a third-generation sample or does it just cancel out at some point like Inception...

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1 hour ago, James Frank. said:

here's a good one: what do you guys think about second-generation sampling?

by this i mean beats that literally sample another beat lol.

the most prevalent example i can think of in my head is "All Gold Everything" by Trinidad James, sampling a Too $hort track from like 10 years before, just slowed down to half-speed.

part of me thinks it's the whackest, most un-creative shit anyone could pull ever...but then the philosopher in me thinks about why i get so angry at the idea.  i mean, it's music being re-interpreted, right?  that's the definition of a sample...so in theory, you could very easily argue that this is the logical step for *some hip-hop production.  as a community/industry, we've exhausted numerous genres of music -- sometimes even the same fucking samples, as discussed above in the thread.

but just like those should be treated on a case by case basis, part of me thinks we should treat second-gen sampling the same way.  i mean, sometimes the shit is dope and sometimes it isn't; that's just music.

with that said though, i imagine in my head an example of someone sampling, let's say the Accordion beat -- and just kinda slowing it down to half speed, maybe adding a high-pass filter and a few extra bass notes.  could that work?  or is it blasphemy lol?  old heads were dead wrong about the influence of trap music on hip-hop, as we can clearly see new cats coming up specifically doing everything "wrong" just to piss them off haha...so i wonder if this is one of those things too.

like will someone 20 years from now sample All Gold Everything, and speed it back up to sound normal?  is that a third-generation sample or does it just cancel out at some point like Inception...

Dollar bin R&B records is where it's at, bruh.  Either for inspiration (see: Award Tour by ATCQ and how the bassline was "inspired" by the one from Jade's "Don't Walk Away") or just flat out sampling them shits (similar to how Knxwledge and 9th Wonder flips old R&B loops).  Jodeci, Zhane, The Family Stand, Soul II Soul ... 

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i think it's hilarious how hypocritical some beatmakers can be with their beats though.  perfect example is the Lord Finesse/Mac Miller lawsuit...like, how can you be pro-sampling and say that your re-interpretation of it makes it an original work that doesn't necessitate paying royalties to the original artist -- then when someone pulls the same shit on you all of a sudden you think re-interpretation is just a euphemism for stealing lol?

so i guess second-gen sampling is one thing; re-interpreting an old school acapella is another thing (like you're mentioning, 360) ; and then re-interpreting an old school beat is another thing, and they all have to be addressed differently since they aren't the same things...it's crazy.

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On 8/24/2017 at 8:56 PM, James Frank. said:

i think it's hilarious how hypocritical some beatmakers can be with their beats though.  perfect example is the Lord Finesse/Mac Miller lawsuit...like, how can you be pro-sampling and say that your re-interpretation of it makes it an original work that doesn't necessitate paying royalties to the original artist -- then when someone pulls the same shit on you all of a sudden you think re-interpretation is just a euphemism for stealing lol?

so i guess second-gen sampling is one thing; re-interpreting an old school acapella is another thing (like you're mentioning, 360) ; and then re-interpreting an old school beat is another thing, and they all have to be addressed differently since they aren't the same things...it's crazy.

I agree with that too. And as I mentioned before, just do what feels right to you. People are going to hate no matter what.

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I don't agree with the OP. There is no brownie points for using an obscure loop that has never been sampled before if the end result doesn't feel good. As someone pointed out Dilla sampled the same loop several times and every time he did it it felt good. The feeling is all that matters in the end...

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