LeftFoot1st

DRUMS.... I DON'T GET IT. (HELP)

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I didn't see the video....I just read the posts...but right now i'm pretty content with the drums I got.... so this thread is pretty much done for.... I think everybody pitched in some great info and it really helped me figure this one out.... for kick drums at least

now i'm going to eq all my snares... lets see what happens.

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Not sure on the clipping thing bra. I mean clipping the master fader at least... If I want to clip drums (which I do regularly) I'll send them to a comp and use the comps make up gain to clip it without actually do any compression, just using solely the gain. And it doesn't even have to be a comp, sometimes a plug with any kind of make up gain can do some nice clipping. You basically slam it in to the tool and then lower that sounds fader in the mix so the overall mix volume never actually changes. You need to leave your self heaps of headroom for limiting and mastering so clipping your mix on the master fader (if I'm understanding what you said correctly) is a pretty big no no.

But hey, I guess if it works for you it works for you :)

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Lol, it'll just be my secret.... my shit is knocking right now... and it does not sound distorted or clipped.. and in fact while it is in my hardware it isn't anywhere near peaking.... my computer cannot handle that sound because it isn't meant to.. but a dedicated hardware can handle it no problem.

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...I'm curious to hear the result man!... can't seem to find you on SC though?

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Cool cool. As for the 200-700freq thing you were saying. You're correct most people aren't accounting for hip hop genres when discussing those "rules". Still be careful with build up in them areas though cause it will make your shit muddy as opposed to warm. I've said before I tend to cut EVERYTHING out of the track that isn't needed at first, the shit then sounds pretty dry and thin but then I'll slowly boost 200-700 bands back in on snares/hats/kicks and samples etc so it's more a lean warmth and fatness as opposed to a cruddy muddy sound. Also I know you don't use comps or plugs but a great tip for anyone else who wants fatness is to smash the whole track through a parralell comp, basically sit on the whole track, squash all the peaks so it's just a slab of thick sound, low pass and high pass that channel get those high and low freqs out of the way (so nows it's a big warm slab of 200-700ish freqs). Now notch out spaces with subtractive eq like we spoke about before. IE: give all your drums a place to sit within this slab of sound you've created. Then blend it back in with the original to taste. It really helps fill all the holes of the mix without muddying the whole thing up. I kinda learnt that one myself when all my mixes were coming out to clean and thin.

Peace.

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..all my shit bangs on my monitors, but it was just on my crappy computer that I couldn't really hear anything, which was kind of annoying...because I know a lot of people listen to music on laptop and iPhone headphones which usually stop picking up sounds around 125hz depending on the laptop and what not.

Buy some shitty speakers or use your laptop speaker every now and then while you mix. It'll help drastically, and it won't cost you anything.

4:04

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Haha I was going to mention that video in my post. I actually watched it for the first time like a week ago. I always heard quincy loved his auratones though.

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Yeah a quick just outrageous gain boost and then bring the fader down will do ya good.

But I was starting to get more on LeftFoot's side just because it's really the final frontier, "What if I just let the shit in the red and bank on it getting backed down by hardware/youtube/soundcloud" it's always been a nagging suspicion in the back of my mind, 'crazy enough it just might work'

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I'll post results tomorrow, I'm still figuring out snares right now.... my drums have a real low end sound to them, but I can still hear them through my speakers now... which is all I really wanted... the thing I noticed with snares is that I don't have to eq the shit into the red like i was before... I literally was having a big red brick in various parts of the waveform with my kicks, but it would go down after a minus in amplification in audacity.... with snares... after everything.. i'll probably have a hair sizes red line... which doesn't mean much...

what i'll do tomorrow is pick any shit sample i can find and play a drum pattern over it and sign back into my soundcloud.... I changed my name on there and I might change it again tomorrow... I'm having an identity crisis...lol ..... thinking of changing it to Art Garde or some shit closer to my name...

I do want to get better at compression, which at the moment i am not really doing right now... i'm just trying to get my shit to sound good straight off eq... no layering..no compression.. or anything like that.... the most i'd play with is reverb on snares and hats... but i haven't tried it yet with any snares since i've only made like 2 as of right now.... but let's see what happens tomorrow.

good night.

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One thing we haven't mentioned is the sampler involved in drum samples, you can't get an SP1200 s950 etc with software, recording hot on those maschines creates that distortion from the circuitry and the filters, then ran into a reel to reel. Layers are really important, Low subby kick layed with a disco kick (Both from vinyl the source does make a difference), you have boom thump and knock,

Try pushing the mids on the disco kick and cutting all the bass out, take off all the high and mid off the subby kick, slap them both into a transient designer and fiddle, a gadget by D16 group decimort is amazing at becoming a pre amp, and make your drums sound louder. Something else that rings a bell which is well important is perceived volume.

This is well interesting seeing Kanye struggle with his drums.

Oh and Timbo does not make his own drums a guy called Anomoly makes his kits for him. So he does not tweak shit he's little liar. That look on Kanyes face says it all, he had overlooked the sound spectrum, and looked like a noob with timbo explaining layers ha ha!

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At around 4:00 that kick right there is how my kicks sound before I filter them...that shit is wild distorted...beyond a 0db level....and that's what you need to be heard... I saw another video with ill mind saying some shit about his drums being saved at 3db

The 808 isn't a bad idea if you're trying to do club music or w,e, but I'm just trying to keep it smooth ...I actually hate 808s lol ....I just recorded some bullshit just to here how my drums sound...I'm gonna post it in a sec...let me get this coffee

It shouldn't be considered hype...cause it's really not a song at all...I literally picked anything

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So after listening to it, I noticed I want to do a low pass filter on my drums... I got frequencies I really don't want in the mix

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the main goal though was to make sure i could hear my drums on my laptop.... which I now can... before I couldn't here a damn thing in terms of kick drums even when it was the only thing playing on the track with no space for interferrence... now it comes through my mac speakers... doesn't sound like it does on my monitors.. but I can here them for sure... i'm sure I haven't perfected them, but it's a great start right now.....and remember they are not layered.. just eq'd

EDIT: the more I listen to it the more I hear how I want to low pass everything... It has a interesting sound right now which translates well into a monitor, but it's not quite as smooth sounding as i'd like it to be... I've been listening to a lot of tuamie and wun two.. and they both have a more lower end focused kick.. which is what i'm trying to go for...doing a spectrum analysis I can see my kick has sounds reaching as far as 9khz... which is just insane.. i'll be LPF that so it's silent after about 1khz - 2khz

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Bouncing drums to tape is good for adding some juicy sounding tape saturation....also compression and eq is really key.Those two things are incredibly important to learn and as far as EQ its a lifelong journey to learn that shit.One thing that applies to anything you eq is that its better to cut than boost most of the time and also make sure you learn your frequencies and where generally an instrument or perc sample should fall in the mix.anything that not relevant regarding a particular sound frequency wise then cut it out.For example you don't need a hat that is let wide open all the way down to 60 hz,but if you used a spectral analyzer on a computer you can see that they will often have some noise going on in that range but its not necessary so filter it out or it could mess with something that needs to be clear through in that range...in this case it would be the kick.Ill post link of an eq cheat sheet in a sec to show you where shit should fall.

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it's good to have monitors for the majority of your mixing duties man but it's also great to have a shitty system close by to reference as you mix and to even make small mix adjustments through. I constantly use ipod earbuds and I recently bought one of these shitty $15 speakers (logitech z50) as a little reference thing to check my shit on as I go every now and then.

71s_A6_I1_PXq_L_SL1500.jpg

It's mono and it sounds like anus but I figure if i can get a mix sounding acceptable on there it'll sound amazing on everything else haha. And so far it's been pretty true. Laptop speakers/ipod headphones and shitty little desktop speakers like this one are all pretty mid range heavy. They lack high end and low end clarity and when mixing with monitors you tend to levitate towards giving those high and low ends more focus because they sound so fucking nice on high quality speakers and high quality speakers give you the full balanced EQ spectrum... You put all that energy in to making it knock and sparkle but then on a midrange heavy system there's no substance because you've ignored that midrange on your monitors. That's natural though, that's why every top studio has a Mixcube or Auratone on standby.

Buy some shitty speakers or use your laptop speaker every now and then while you mix. It'll help drastically, and it won't cost you anything.

yeah my laptop seriously must have the worst speaker known to man... I occasionally ditch the headphones and listen through this tinny piece of shit to see how it sounds

but what I don't get is this... what if you listen through your shitty speakers, tweek it, get it sounding good, then go back to your monitors and it sounds terrible there?

when I bother listening through my proper monitors (which are pretty shitty and in a room that can be described as 'fucked' acoustically) it always sounds like I need a heap of verb to bring the mix to life

but then if I go listen again through my headphones (which are pretty low range sennheisers) it sounds like I've totally overdone it on the reverb lol

Do you just try to strike some sort of balance?

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Do you just try to strike some sort of balance?

yup. The aim is to get it sounding as right as possible on everything it's played on. I have the same problem with my home theatre system, the bass is WAY to boomy but I can get mixing sounding nice on there and not loosing too much low end on monitors. Thing with monitors is no one really uses them for leisure. Fact is most people listen with iPod headphones or even shitty laptop speakers. Monitors are just a magnify glass for sound basically. When I'm mixing through the shitty speaker I'm doing really light work... It's usually eq related to give snares more brightness or make kicks/bass more audible... When I go back to my monitors it usually ends up sounding better if anything.

I always do my verb in studio headphones just cause it's way easier to hear the stereo effect in headphones. I never really set that shit up monitors... Maybe try it that way. Do your verb start to finish on the headphones and see how it relates on the monitors? Acoustics can be a big issue, I found some cheap audio foam on eBay which actually made a massive difference, I can hear every little tweak now. Just makes things a lot more transparent cause the sound isn't bouncing around my room as much.

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Boy oh boy is the sound bouncing around my room...but the good thing is my monitors have switches on the back that allow me to lower the high and low end down -2 and -4 Decibels below 0 so I sometimes use that as a reference as well....but most of the time I use the computer.

The thing is that there are a lot of different kick sounds out there so the part that comes through on the laptop might not be the part you expect...like recently I made something and off feedback I realized the kick was a little too punchy...it had a pop to it and that's what came through on the laptop...which didn't bother me much cause It sounds really nice on my monitors, but it was good someone helped me Ed and Gp helped me noticed that

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Best way to judge the sound resonance in a room is just to clap... The ammount of echo or 'ringing' you hear after you clap will indicate how needed foam is. I basically had no carpet and thin plaster in the room I was working in so not ideal. I picked up 10 reasonably sized acoustic foam panels for around $50au and it basically cut the echo of my clapping down by around 70% well worth it.

Note: you don't want a completely dry room (0% echo) as that's not a very natural environment... But you should do the best you can to limit noise reflections. Books, vinyl crates, carpet, beds etc all do good jobs for this but unfortunately my desk is in my dining room so there was pretty much nothing in there besides a dining table haha.

Good luck.

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Haha, I used to cook beats in the kitchen all day long.... now I moved to room... I did the clap and didn't really hear much, but it's probably because I have my windows wide open which pretty much take up 3/4th of one wall and the other is my closet full of clothes... then my room has no space because of a big ass queen sized bed which i'm getting rid of lol...so I guess my room is pretty ideal...not a studio setting, but good for what i'm doing.

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THEY REAL KEY... is make sure w.e you're using for your drums... DO NOT NORMALIZE to 0.0DB... that was my major mistake... I tweak my shit on the computer with audacity because I can batch it... but i kept getting the clipping indication so I would normalize... that shit would suck the soul out of my drums...but now i've learned a specific DB to place it so it bumps on my speakers and my laptop... it still clips in audacity, but once I bring it into my hardware it maintains it's loudness without peaking and when it gets dumped back into my computer after a beat... it actually comes out not clipping with plenty of room to normalize it to 0.0 db.. which is where it actually needs to be for release...it can be lower too. I do -0.4DB

So I guess the main thing to think about is... just because it's loud now doesn't mean it'll be loud in the final mix... when everything gets put together it will sit really well.

I stopped using Audacity for this reason, didn't notice you could still export it right.

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Yeah it depends what you are using...I'm using the sp303 so a lot of times I can create so,e really wonky shit and just record it and it comes out lower than I thought it would....but it also has to do with eq...make sure you're removing the frequency your kick sits at in everything else that sits down there.... If your kick sits at 2 and your bass sits at 1 and 2 make your bass lower at 2 and bump it at 3 for presence in the mix

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another thing I think about monitors, stereo mixing?

Something about Dilla's formula seems like maybe the samples are mono, or just mixed on one channel. Then maybe to get the drums "over" the sample he would mix them to two tracks, or mix them in stereo?

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another thing I think about monitors, stereo mixing?

Something about Dilla's formula seems like maybe the samples are mono, or just mixed on one channel. Then maybe to get the drums "over" the sample he would mix them to two tracks, or mix them in stereo?

Not sure how Dilla did it but it would seem to be more common that drums are mono given that the kick and snare are usually centered anyway.Samples can vary between stereo and mono depending on what other shit like one shots that you put in your beat sound like.It all depends on how things interact in the mix.The only reason I see to do drums in stereo would be for hats/shakers and if you wanted them off to the side.If your on a DAW none of this should be as much of a pain to deal w/ but if your on an SP it can become a polyphony issue if your resampling your beat.

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so here's the story behind these motherfuckers
https://soundcloud.com/gpbear/drums4left

I'd been meaning to try recording some drums with either my 404SX or just cassette player. I wasn't doing anything today, so I chose the latter, and wasn't even sure if the cassette player would pic up the drums - hence the offbeat nonsense. So I recorded 11 breaks really quick with just a cassette player on the floor next to my kick, lo and behold it worked okay. All of them got recorded. but for some reason only the last (and worst because I wasn't sure if it was even being recorded) 5 or 6 breaks got put into audacity when I ripped it, so here ya go lol.

I might put up the first five after running them through the 404 because they can get cleaned up kinda nice

so yeah, this is what happens when you mix a guy playing drums who doesn't know if he's being recorded, and weed

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Those shits sound crazy lo fi ...I could probably use those for layering to be honest....they sound mad crunchy lol

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Yeah I had a cassette player for a lil min before it stopped working but cassette-recorded drums into Sp-202 = some legit lo-fi crunch.

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forget the usual: compression, eq... I never eq, I'll use something else before eq. Anyways, EQ'ing is good to remove frequencies in general, not to add(i.e. more bass). Go for the unusual: try Transient Shaper or sometimes called Transient designer. Also, I used to think that distortion was only to make the sound "distort". I didn't understand that a little bit of distortion or a little bit of saturation would only add harmonics and enrich the sound. For one thing, compression will probably make your drums sound flatter unless you add an exciter or some high's after(or unless you want that over-compressed flat SP sound..). Also, I realized that mixing in headphones before monitors would also suck. It's better to mix in speakers first. Anyways, that's it. Don't attack the sound by throwing eq or compression on it, but "caress" it with some gentle harmonics...and then, you can add compression. Also, something I started doing to "clean" up breaks is to use an expander. To remove the crap between the hits. Unless I want to chop it. But If I want to keep some of the original background noise but not all, I'll use this: http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=538 Floorfish is amazing to clean samples that have silence in them. And different types of distortion too like chebyshev is cool. Like the one that comes with the Soundhack plugins.

Like most mixing engineers(something i'm not but wish I was) would say, keep everything in it's own place, filter and filter and filter unwanted frequencies. Especially that vibration/hum coming from turntables, those annoying lows that come with cheap turntables.

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