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MADLIB

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He's not making money on record sales so he's gotta come up somewhere

this made sense to you huh?

the notion that an artist of his caliber and seasoning still getting royalties from his records, playing live events around the world never crossed your mind? instead, you think he's sitting at home googling who has infringed on his copyright so he can cross his palm with silver?

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Are we really going to get into this?

How Bob James has admitted most of his young fans come from Hip-Hop? So the reason he plays live events around the world is at least partially in due to the fact that his music was sampled?

Why would it be interesting hilarious if he found out on whosampled. No one's saying he shouldn't get paid, we're asking for him and anyone who sues Hip-Hop to have the common decency to not kick us when we're down, and call us untalented as they sue us.

Or in your case, "I don't understand the value of appropriation" then why the fuck are you here? And if we're gonna be honest, go look at Bob James' liner notes, it's full of Idris Muhammed, Earl Klugh, George Benson. He's a white guy who made money off of black musicians. And he shows no self-awareness when it comes to the plight of african americans in the urban community.

It's not hard to understand at all. There's 100 years of recorded music. To go through that monolithic chunk of data and cull microscopic seconds worth of sounds, and then recontextualizing them into a hip-hop beat is far more difficult than writing a 1950s I-II-V Rock'N'Roll song. And even if you don't want to admit that, it's undeniable that doing such labor intensive work takes a special amount of talent. It's like Whistler painting Nocturnes in 15 minutes and getting sued. The audience is paying for the artists life experience, whatever road Madlib took that made him sample Nautilus is what we respect, not the sounds of Nautilus itself. Madlib's kind of a bad example, because honestly we all know he doesn't give a fuck about getting sued and hasn't in 15 years. He has Kanye West in his corner, Madlib could make a record of entire Bob James classics and just put maracas over them, some Mainstream guy would come out of the woodworks to save him financially.

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dawg.... he's NOT making money off record sales. ffffing madona isn't making any money off records so bob james certainly isn't

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it's a different world. i bet most of dude's revenue is off ticket sales. from old folks. i'd honestly never heard of the dude, so maybe i'm naive, or maybe i'm out of touch with jazz. but a love supreme was my favorite album when i was 14 ya feel me?? i think i'm an outlier as far as younger folks and jazz. even younger folks than me........ .... .. jazz is doomed

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Funny thing was the day I read about it here, I had bought three Bob James albums. Sampled them shits just out of spite.

Bet you was all like

r2W1SMB.jpg

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I wish, got

'Nickel' 'Touchdown' and 'One on One with Earl Klugh'

Granted I'm really into this weird 70s jazz

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lmao jesus christ some of you really hate bob james for this.

I think it sucks because it's madlib, and BJ sounds funny like a geezer in his statement, but it doesn't really matter WHO it is suing.

doesn't really matter if he's old as fuck or white as fuck. I mean you realize that people have been getting sample clearances for hip hop basically for as long as hip hop has been around, right? it's not some new thing being forced on the hip hop community...

You can't say "he does deserve money" and also "he shouldn't sue/doesn't deserve money"

Or in your case, "I don't understand the value of appropriation" then why the fuck are you here? And if we're gonna be honest, go look at Bob James' liner notes, it's full of Idris Muhammed, Earl Klugh, George Benson. He's a white guy who made money off of black musicians. And he shows no self-awareness when it comes to the plight of african americans in the urban community.

It's not hard to understand at all. There's 100 years of recorded music. To go through that monolithic chunk of data and cull microscopic seconds worth of sounds, and then recontextualizing them into a hip-hop beat is far more difficult than writing a 1950s I-II-V Rock'N'Roll song. And even if you don't want to admit that, it's undeniable that doing such labor intensive work takes a special amount of talent. It's like Whistler painting Nocturnes in 15 minutes and getting sued. The audience is paying for the artists life experience, whatever road Madlib took that made him sample Nautilus is what we respect, not the sounds of Nautilus itself.

^ none of this makes any sense at all, i'm sorry to say.

i mean it's a valiant effort (insert slow-clap here) to say that sampling is somehow much much more difficult than composing, arranging, recording and releasing a piece of music. lmao or the idea that someone who samples has to exhaustively cull through literally 100 years of recorded music every time he samples.

nobody respects what madlib does more than myself. But what he does (making hip hop beats yo) has been established for a while, and part of what he does (hip hop beats yo) is getting sample clearances. sometimes he doesn't get them because he's cool/broke like that. sometimes he gets caught! shit happens.

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I don't hate the guy, I was just super hammered. He seems cool. I still don't think he should be suing but whatevs

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it would actually be interesting hilarious if bob james and his people found out about the copyright infringement from websites that attempt to document sample sources

this is obviously the place they learn these things from. google: (artist name)+samples and whosampled . com is going to be the first thing to come up.

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Complete bullshit, Swamp.

I'M FINE WITH BOB JAMES GETTING HIS MONEY

I'M NOT FINE WITH HIM TALKING SHIT IN HIS LAWSUIT

There's NO constitutional, or artistic merit to putting "Madlib can't make music" in your lawsuit (in so many words). I just want that shit to stop, because it's so ridiculous, it borders on getting your lawsuit thrown out of court. I'm not talking about Bob James and Madlib, go look 20 years ago at Gilbert O'Sullivan and Biz Markie, these guys use lawsuits to 1) get money and 2) talk down to Hip-Hop artists and vent their frustrations with the industry by directing it at some poor black dude that doesn't have any lobby behind him.

'1' is fine and legal, '2' is a product of racial injustice from the 60s and prior. That's why I'm fighting against '2' because it's complete bullshit.

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haha dude sounds like a fool in his complaint i'll give you that. if that's all you're saying i'm on board. not my entire comment was directed at you personally, just the one bit about sampling being far more difficult than creating the sample itself

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Wait, why are people referring to Madlib as broke or that he was broke. I sure read a lot about him back then as I was studying the DeLa and Biz lawsuits. He knew the routine. Now he and sssssst have requisite paper so now labels are catching vapors. The environment is ripe for these suits and again it's no real sweat for any of the defendants. True that copyrights are compromised in any medium. Do you think this will lead to more exposure for OJJ. It's really not so much the artist as it is the labels.

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No idea what's happening on internet forums these days since everywhere I look it's like the same five guys talking, but I figured folks would look to this joint in order to keep up with what's happening with 'lib vs. Nautilus so I'm pasting my little 2 cent excerpt here. I spoke on sampling somewhere on the internet before and here's a part of the text. It's not about this particular case but I think it's applicable:

"Paying for a sound like that makes me feel weird. And while I do think that paying the artist directly(If you absolutely have to pay) is better than some lawyer or company that has nothing to do with the artist pocketing the money, it still doesn't add up in my mind. Because the sampled artist wouldn't sell any more records or gain any more fans if his/her music DIDN'T get sampled. Sampling isn't some vampiric blow to a musician's career; the worst that can happen is recontextualization. The original song obviously still stands as it was even after it's sampled a bazillion times. Nothing happens to it. People will find their way to it, and frankly I can't see(in a case of 'artist has been sampled') what part of the hull of the original artist's ship has been cracked, if you will. It's all intact, and if you're lucky you might get new people to come and take a look, get familiar, and some will want to spend some money, believe it or not. I myself became the biggest Gil Scott-Heron fan because I got to know him originally strictly through sampling, and he saw money from me before he passed away. Same thing with Roy Ayers, Andy Bey, many others.

That's why the whole idea of paying for 'damages' or 'infringement' just sounds so ridiculous to me. If you have to make a lawsuit out of someone messing with your music, demanding crazy amounts of currency... it makes me wonder how you'd react to tripping on your shoelaces and catching a bruise on your knee. Are you going to sue Nike, demanding an exponentially larger wad of cash because physical injury sure as hell is a lot worse than someone using one sound from one of your songs in some other song? A song that doesn't even have anything to do with your original demographic or the scene in which your music is in, I might add. 'Copyright infringement' involving sampling doesn't fill the requirement of 'you took something from me!' because, again, if the artist didn't get sampled it wouldn't affect him or her in a more positive way than getting sampled would. Apart from some control-freakish peace of mind I guess. But if that's what this is about then bringing lawsuits and (copyright)crime into it is laughably ridiculous.
"

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Bob James wrote the taxi theme. Flipped by hiero to great effect. He collects for any unlicensed sample.

I don't think Roy Auers would go after Madlib but his lawyers may.

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haha dude sounds like a fool in his complaint i'll give you that. if that's all you're saying i'm on board. not my entire comment was directed at you personally, just the one bit about sampling being far more difficult than creating the sample itself

play-him-off-bob-james-cat-o.gif

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No idea what's happening on internet forums these days since everywhere I look it's like the same five guys talking

It's because we all went to check out ThisIs50 and were like "Man this is garbage" so we came here

@MW, lol bob james called that song a "joke" like, that's the kind of shit that gets me. These musicians disrespect the shit out of hip-hop. They just don't like it, so they sue. Then they lie and say it's about infringement or whatever. GAHBAGE

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They generally don't like the sketchy nature of hip-hop. Everyone has to pay their dues.

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I still say fuck him

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Fact is intellectual property is a contradiction in terms simple as that. Music doesn't function as a commodity.

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The whole point is to protect artists. It is not s contradiction. Ever consider that many of the songs that top the charts are stolen from powerless artists.

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I agree, but it's a necessary evil. I strongly believe in the quote "Good artists copy, great artists steal."

I mean, isn't the essence of Madlib's greatness that he has no problem with biting off large chunks of other people's music? The point isn't that we should all just steal stuff, the point is to take the ego out of the equation.

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Tell that to George Clinton and see what he thinks. Dog eat dog. Be down with the cabal or you lose.

And let's just allow pharell and will I am unfettered power to make sucky stolen music.

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madlib's greatness does often lie in reinterpreting others work. but sometimes he also makes original music that takes a hell of a lot of work and he plays most of the instruments himself. i'll bet you he'd pop people for unlicensed sampling of YNQ, and who could blame him?

making high quality stuff (in any medium) costs at the very least time and money most of the time, and then at the end of all your work somebody just snaps that up out of your hands from their computer chair. The ethics of it all are very murky, and my feelings on it can change swiftly depending on the individual artists/sampled-people involved (the more under the radar the sampler, the more inclined I am to say who cares, and some of the madlib's BEST SHIT is unlicensed, and he's ushered me to so much great music through illicit means), but in the end i'd always rather fall on the side of protecting artists, as boog says. when you open the doors so everything is fair game to everyone, the slowly collapsing system that allows artists to make their money and retain control over their creations just crumbles away!

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They don't like the sketchy nature of hip-hop, and they want to legit bury these guys' careers. Hundred thousand dollar lawsuits.

Always hear "It's illegal because Madlib got caught" which is basically how weed was. EVERYONE did it, but they would only go after you if you're really pushing some buttons. It's not a feasible law. With millions of youtube accounts 90% of which break copyright laws, the industry obviously just abuses its power when it so chooses to cripple musicians that go against the grain.

Lord Finesse sued Mac Miller for like 2 million dollars because he made a song over one of his beats. That's what these Bob James types led to. Thanks, karma

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I'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to this topic. Like, does "sampling" even have much of a pulse left, period? I mean, sure you have a whole galaxy of hobbyist producers, but how many dudes are actually eating off it? You can count them on one hand, and even those guys aren't a sure shot. FlyLo's last album had like two samples on it. I don't think RZA's used them at all lately. Last we heard from Madlib, he was sampling stuff that deliberately went against the grain of what most people know as "hip-hop sampling" – and I don't really see that approach being embraced. It's the same old story with the music industry in the past ten years, where the people who were underground went even further underground. And the people who were under them (us), well...shit, we're here.

Of course, I don't think there's anything wrong with sampling. In fact, it can be the most sublime when it's done well (see: Dilla). But you have to be in it for the right reasons. Today, sampling's become this classicism with the whole "beat scene," overpriced vinyl records, outdated samplers selling for exorbitant sums and so on and so forth. But the proof is in the pudding. Most of the music that's come out of that either 1) Sucks, or 2) is completely derivative. That was my problem with those Mass Appeal videos. I found them to be really cynical, like way more interested in the trappings of the beat-making scene than the music itself.

I think it would healthy to acknowledge the fact that a lot of the beats we know and love were a product of certain limitations (not having access to musical instruments, not having access to knowledge about different styles of music) that simply don't apply anymore. Everyone has access to the sum total of human knowledge at their fingertips. There's no excuse for not becoming informed about the world's musical traditions/technology/etc. and incorporating it into your own music.

But, hey, that's just my opinion. At the end of the day, hard work is really the only thing that counts for anything.

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ever wonder if this is why quasimoto didnt want to be exposed ?

everyone all in his bizness?

oh well its whatever now

i still have the orig version of the unseen with the transformers theme on there.

and who the fuck is Madlib?

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The only thing that is good about music is that it is a reflexion of life, itself. Paying out settlements or jury awards for uncleared samples is not going to brake a musician. I freak out when I go out and hear music because my actual idea of perfection is madlib. Whatever the fuck he does is how I define myself. He loves Roy Auets and I do too. Roy Ayers was one of the coolest dudes I've ever spoken to telephonically. And I grew up speaking telephonically so go fuck yourselves.

Yes we get turned on by pastiches of different music and yes there is nowhere to go after Zappa dies of cancer.

But, the law is the law. You can make Sherlock Holmes buttfuck himself and write about him soon but you can't Jack someone's melody and expect to get away with it.

I watched an NBA game (Negros bucking assists) today and heard no less than an Eric B. & Rakim joint and watched homo nas speak about Hennessy over the best ever premier beat. And it all sucked royally. Out of place/out of time.

Madlib said yearbooks are better than 100 percent of anyone else's thoughts. But Madlib will have to pony up some suckers to make this guy go away. It's a grown ass man thing to do. It's part of the struggle.

Much in this life is unavoidable. Any other label would be faltering at this point. I wish I could negotiate for him because I can identify with his struggle. Madlib to me is a brother that I never had-we could have watched Mr. Rogers together or some other educational show that you younger types would shit on. Change may be good, but being rooted is sublime.

Music is kaka and don't tell me that it isn't. What's good can't be found even on college radio.

Again, I'd love to do the negotiating because I can put a $ amount to each bloody sample. Sadly, this is infringement on its face...

How bizarre that people feel the need to worship beat scenes and feel that unregulated business is the way to go. Life is not all über and unlicensed hotels.

I'm short-you play, you pay. Madlibs made hit records producing acts that are now yesterday's news. Your generation is to blame because those sketchy Kabbalist wankers are making up new Brittney Spears for your fellow urban dwelling stupid hipster selves to listen to.

If I hear another fucking pharell Gay ass song as an ear worm I will poke my eyes out with a curtain rod. And fuck the liberal faggy media that thought these songs were cute. People need to refocus what they consider music to be.

In order to do this music necessitates a certain value. No reason to reward niggardly won accomplishments. I'm sure Mozart like me gets sick of his popular pieces-but he won't loop Bach or Brahms (assuming he listens to their shit in heaven).

Sadly these pieces were recorded so long ago. But memories are not short. Madlib and st made loot-point blank. They did so in violation of written law. That st isn't a conglomerate matters much here. "I'm Seymore"

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How Bob James has admitted most of his young fans come from Hip-Hop? So the reason he plays live events around the world is at least partially in due to the fact that his music was sampled?

really? so audiences with an average age of 40-60 years are going to bob james concerts because he was sampled in hiphop and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he's a world famous jazz composer? bob james has been doing live concerts longer than hiphop has even been in existence- though your sentence is structured as a question that doesn't really make sense.

everything else you wrote didn't make much sense to me.

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I agree, but it's a necessary evil. I strongly believe in the quote "Good artists copy, great artists steal."

unfortunately you're applying the quote in the wrong context because you're using it literally. stealing in this case means getting an idea and applying it to something you're doing/will do. for example, when dw griffith made 'birth of a nation' he used a technique of intercutting that had never been done before. this was later adopted by other filmmakers who used the same technique, but they didn't intercut the same images he did, they simply applied that idea of intercutting in the way he did to fit their own stories. this is what separates an individual voice and a ripoff con artist that basically gives you a cheaper imitation of something better.

nobody broke into daimler benz and stop their patent to create another car, but they were influenced to make cars in the same quality that daimler benz has created. this is how you "steal" an idea.

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really? so audiences with an average age of 40-60 years are going to bob james concerts because he was sampled in hiphop and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he's a world famous jazz composer? bob james has been doing live concerts longer than hiphop has even been in existence- though your sentence is structured as a question that doesn't really make sense.

everything else you wrote didn't make much sense to me.

Oh go fuck yourself, take my sentence out of context and it doesn't make sense, obviously, Jesus dude.

Re-attach, "Are we really going to go over this" to the beginning after your butcher job and it's logical again. Don't pull that Fox News Rush Limbaugh bullshit with me.

"Are we really going to go over how Bob James has admitted most of the younger fans at his shows are due to hip-hop?" Is a rational question because it's redundant and cyclical to go over that.

You originally said Bob James does live shows around the world, he doesn't need sample money. Which implies he's going after sample artists on some moral crusade to protect his integrity. But if he makes ticket money off of young people who only go to his shows because he was sampled in Daytona 500, then he's throwing middle-men under the bus who gave him money in the form of new fans, which is hypocritical and inherently redudant - which is why I asked the question "Are we really going to go over this?" In addition to the fact that you didn't address my main point that Bob James is overly disrespectful. And how I find it strange how you (and heads like you over the past 20 years) defend a man/the original musicians who do nothing but sue producers and then insult their artistic credibility unwarranted.

It doesn't matter if the majority of his fans are 50 year old men. He's absolutely raked in ticket sales from some hip-hop fans at some point, which makes my argument valid.

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