James Frank.

Is Hip-Hop a Joke?

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THAT'S JUST WHAT THE WEALTHY WANT YOU TO THINK!

My dad's Both parents are educators. All we need to do is get laptops in schools, you have 3rd graders take pictures of kindergartners, 8th graders make online portfolios for the kindergartners with the pictures. The kindergartners keep a portfolio of stuff they like, teachers look through these portfolios and lead kids down paths toward success ("Hmm, this kid fingerpaints a lot of tractors, I'm going to teach him about 3rd grade math using Tractors as an example"). Let kids in highschool french talk to kids in france over google translate. Building relationships that show people we're all the same will make people stop treating others like garbage and in turn the nation won't tolerate injust fiscal practices on wall street, or misrepresentative legislation in congress. As opposed to now where we're pre-disposed to just take a loss to get to the top so we can make others take a loss as we sit pretty, thanks to sitting through the grist mill that is the 19th-century based pedagogical system we have now that still maintains in-the-box curriculums are the best way to teach humans as opposed to some Paolo Freirian independent studies.

You hated school. Would you hate it if you could write your papers in music theory about Pete Rock's use of filtering? The teachers can and should learn as much if not more from the students as the students learn from the teachers, AND as much as the students learn from each other.

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That's exactly what a white rapper would say!

The only reason 'rapping' exists is because of piss poor socio-economic reasons like gangs and drugs so you'll always be pegged as not "real" by some. And the idea of "appropriating another's culture that your culture has colonially oppressed for your own gratification" is downright appalling to some of the London-Goth-Lesbian-Feminists I know.

Frankly, I can't afford records, I have to go 50 miles round trip just to GO to the record store. PBW working at a Mcdonalds in the 80s with inflation could get records for cheaper and they were more accessible, and there were more stores and records out there. So digging itself has become somewhat of an esoteric, elitist class thing. I've resorted back to shitty guitars with broken amps trying to write songs, which I'll maintain is just as hip-hop as anything out there because of the ghetto conditions it stems from. In the same way blues stems from just a poor guy and his guitar.

"Dad I said well don't you know that things go in cycles" D'angelo's going back to the roots. The Roots started from the roots. Not a lot of black and white in art, 50 shades of grey, twilight. Vampires

i mean, let's not go crazy here -- black people didn't invent rhyming lol. beat poets were a thing too, ya know...but yeah, i get what you're saying i guess. but GP, here's where i start to get confused: my sampling aesthetics have led me to using more '80s-'90s punk in recent months as sources for beats...more than anything else, because its such a vastly untapped resource. there is also quite an extensive tradition of flipping joints from artists like The Turtles and Boz Scaggs -- now, aside from the whole idea of re-contextualization (which was first explored by Picasso when he made the first collage in 1910), or sonic re-contextualization (which actually, was around before hip-hop as well), how is it appropriating black culture when i decide to sample a Missing Persons track and spit flows about some cool shit i learned at art school? i mean, i've heard some Phillip Glass songs that sound very hip-hop to me...but that's mostly because they were composed somewhere around 80-90 bpm.

hip-hop itself is an amalgamation of so many different influences, so i really don't ever know what to think about these arguments regarding the sanctity of it...the purist in me totally gets it, but my rational side also has to call BS on some of these blanket policies that have seemed to just been thrown over the entire culture. the whole point of the genre existing is to say "fuck convention", it's a very punk-esque mindset to have -- that's why i don't feel any remorse whatsoever over what i do. if Q-Tip can sample Lou Reed with impunity, then it shouldn't be a problem if i use the genre itself as a template to start building my own thing off of...i mean, it's art. and art doesn't conform to any ethnic or racial boundaries, regardless of where it may have originally sprung up from.

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You hated school. Would you hate it if you could write your papers in music theory about Pete Rock's use of filtering? The teachers can and should learn as much if not more from the students as the students learn from the teachers, AND as much as the students learn from each other.

yeah, that's the dream. But that's hard to swing – you have to maintain the appearance of authority while still keeping in mind that you don't really know anything and have any authority. But, I appreciate the concrete proposals, I think all these ideas would vastly improve things. The realist/pessimist in me says, however, that any support you would gain for these proposals is going to have an equal and opposite counter-force from the Republican Right and their formidable resources, which again goes all the way to the top to the Murdoch media empire, its ties to oil companies and so on and so on. It's a tangled, thoroughly-fucked situation.

So there's the change from the bottom-up – laptops in schools, transport and so on – but that on its own wouldn't be enough. There also needs to be the topdown change of, firstly, abandoning left-wing/right-wing party politics, abandoning Nationalism (let's rename the country, America isn't worthy of the name), and installing, like, totally new blood in power, not the great-great grandson nephew of so-and-so whose father ran this corporation and whose grandfather owned slaves, but something breaking out of that tradition entirely. And that can happen gradually, but I'm more of a believer in punctuated equilibrium, in other words, things stay static for long periods of time until they suddenly explode in change. That can, does and will happen.

Never thought I would be posting about this stuff on ST, but, anyway, here's an interesting report I read recently of the 1980 Kwangju revolt in Korea which is a very concise description of how these revolutionary, changing-of-the-guard type situations actually go down: http://th-rough.eu/writers/bifo-eng/journey-seoul-1

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JF, I agree. I've presented that argument (or around it) to my London friend. Where it comes in is the second you call it hip-hop. For example, I had an idea to make a burqa in like some neon nike color and she being a muslim was like "Fuuuuuuuuck you, sometimes I'm afraid you'll become one of "those" artist men".

Just to go along with you, something to take back to your yuppie Colorado bongo-beating Boulder friends, fucking Vikings were known to take part in a tradtion known as "Flyting" which consisted of insulting your opponents using rhymes. Dr. Seuss rhymed. Taking a record on a turntable and rhyming on top of it and calling it "Emceeing and DJing" did start in the black community, that's why we know about it. We're on the same page

"my sampling aesthetics have led me to using more '80s-'90s punk in recent months as sources for beats"

the only reason you have sampling aesthetics is because hip-hop. John Cage is cool, but you know john cage because...hip-hop. Hip hop gained mainstream acceptance because it didn't sound like guys hitting spoons on bird cages (no offense love the guy obvs). But that's the main point. Also I'ld like to hear some Out Comes The Wolves sampled because I gave up on punk like 2 weeks into making beats. Then Rock Konducta came out and I was like "eh fuck it, he can deal with it in 12 years"

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1st, in all seriousness, there's no need to deconstruct the whole ship, we just need to make the people running it less of a bunch of cunts. The daughter of the president listens to pro era. I've tried throwing all these arguments at my dad over the past 15 years, he's not buying it.

My dad taught black lit at Richmond High in the years before Coach Carter got there. 21 languages 21 gangs. He had one of those beige computers, and he would publish articles his students wrote, and they'd come back like "Hey Juan your paper got published in Sweden" "Oh cool, can I have a copy for my grandmother? Also where's sweden?" you can get gangbangers to buy into it. Then gangster rap will be like "Read the internet, it's fun for your grandma!". Then the youth will get old, right. So now within 100 years all the old racists die and the young people grew up in a weird environment where gang members glorified acts of self-publishing...very Wu-Tangish. Anyways, in 100 years if you put laptops in schools, old people will have grown up knowing we're all pretty much equal. So...no more dicks to even run for office, and if they try to be, there's a globe of enlightened people who can see through their shit.

Case and point, my dad was teaching this shit in the Bay. 20 years later, kids growing up in that environment becomes the fucking Based 'Lil Berkeley' God gangster-rapping about how being good is good and the internet is for love. It's not even a fantasy, it actually happened.

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the only reason you have sampling aesthetics is because hip-hop.

well, that's not true though...i knew who Picasso was before i knew what hip-hop was, and i understood the idea of collage at a really young age. by your argument, i could end all the perceived "hate" (for lack of a better term) by just calling what i do by a different name. which at that point, is really stupid and very contrary to the whole idea of inclusion and acceptance that hip-hop was originally defined by...

i think hip-hop's become a religion for some, and just like any religion you have dogmatic extremists that don't want things to move forward or proliferate any further than the late '80s-early '90s. i mean, ironically those acts coming up around that time were trying to influence the widest possible audience, i.e. little ol' granola eating me, because it makes good business sense to do that. being a hipster elitist to a general audience of hipster elitists makes the "true" hip-hop crowds no better -- in fact, it's complete bullshit because none of what hip-hop represents is inherently new, that's the whole fucking point lol. music is supposed to transcend cultural boundaries, we should be happy that the music is so good that it's reaching audiences worldwide -- not bitching and moaning that some Australian chick is making money on a shit-trendy single.

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a. Yeah that's kinda what Jonwayne's doing I'd imagine.

b. It wasn't designed to include all cultures/people necessarily.
c. Making a collage in music doesn't make it hip-hop.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Just because you make sample-based music with rhymes on it doesn't make it Hip-Hop. The culture of Hip-Hop has to let you into it, that's how culture works. You can't just go to the UK and say "I'm british now" you have to get visas, their acceptance as a society.

If you want to call it Hip-Hop you have to cater to the party people, people who party at the clubs today are not the same people who sit around and make obscure beats. Hip-Hop has evolved past that into Kanye West or whatever. Going back and making beats that sound like Hip-Hop did in 1991 is different than making those beats in 1991. It's coping an aesthetic that was developed by an oppressed culture, Wu-Tang Clan, Pete Rock, Marley Marl they would take obstensibly white music industry records add some of their own darkness to it, and that's why you liked it, and that's why you have that as your aesthetic. It's not just collage, it's the very specific tension (Dynamic Symmetry for art schoolers) between white music labels and the pain of being rejected by those labels. Using their own weapons against them on some Judo shit. Wu-Tang style.

Iggy Azelea just reminds me of all those corny ass 80s rap acts I love. Fucking Rob Base, LL Cool J and shit. Not shitting on Rob Base, just giving some props to Iggy whatever her name is

Also, JF, Picasso was from Spain which in the late 19th century went to war with America and within 40 years was at Civil War. His 7 year-old sister died when he was 14, of course his first major movement the Blue period was catalyzed by his best friend shooting himself in the face in a cafe; his first major work Des Demoiselle D'Avignon was painted in a piss poor parisian apartment basement with no lights and was based on his fears of syphillis in whore houses (see rappers and hoes) so he didn't exactly come from a bed of roses. Meaning even if you did learn collage from him, you're profiting on his pain, you goddamn capitalist pig.

edit: lol just noticed the UK Visa irony considering DOOM's situation

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1st, in all seriousness, there's no need to deconstruct the whole ship, we just need to make the people running it less of a bunch of cunts. The daughter of the president listens to pro era. I've tried throwing all these arguments at my dad over the past 15 years, he's not buying it.

My dad taught black lit at Richmond High in the years before Coach Carter got there. 21 languages 21 gangs. He had one of those beige computers, and he would publish articles his students wrote, and they'd come back like "Hey Juan your paper got published in Sweden" "Oh cool, can I have a copy for my grandmother? Also where's sweden?" you can get gangbangers to buy into it. Then gangster rap will be like "Read the internet, it's fun for your grandma!". Then the youth will get old, right. So now within 100 years all the old racists die and the young people grew up in a weird environment where gang members glorified acts of self-publishing...very Wu-Tangish. Anyways, in 100 years if you put laptops in schools, old people will have grown up knowing we're all pretty much equal. So...no more dicks to even run for office, and if they try to be, there's a globe of enlightened people who can see through their shit.

Case and point, my dad was teaching this shit in the Bay. 20 years later, kids growing up in that environment becomes the fucking Based 'Lil Berkeley' God gangster-rapping about how being good is good and the internet is for love. It's not even a fantasy, it actually happened.

That's awesome bro. Education is the key to everything. Which is why the powers that be will never fund proper education for the masses. Feeding off ignorance and division.

/cliches

No but I really believe that

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Gawddam you JF!!! Why don't you just pick up a guitar like a white person is supposed to do. How dare you try to express yourself how you want. You fucking piece of shit.

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JF, my basic point is that you like Hip-Hop because it's a dynamic art. It's a very fractal thing.

You like making collages

but it's not just about the collages, because some hip-hop beats is whack. There's a certain type of sound/vibe that I'd assume you're going for and that sound is built out of DYNANICISM. Static symmetry is me taking a canvas, putting a circle in the middle, and painting concentric circles around it, shit's boring. Dynamic Symmetry is framing disparate parts to create balance and tension. Only Greek and Egyptian art used Dynamic Symmetry, all other ancient cultures used static, that's why Western Art is built on Greek art see: contrapposta pose/tension (greeks learned from applying Egyptian Temple building techniques).

The samples/loops/drum hits are the disparate parts in Hip-Hop, but not only are they bit aspects of dynamic symmetry, they're also reflective of the fragmented nature of the black condition during the zeitgeist of the time (hence fractally).

In hip-hop the dynamic/dramatic tension is created by the pain of a black man in the early 1990s being rejected by the White industry. So in turn, they take the records of the labels that rejected them, and flipped them to reflect the FEELING they had INSIDE of being fragmented by the industry. The beats themselves ARE who they are.

Q-Tip sampling Lou Reed. He didn't sample Metal Machine Music, fuck he didn't even sample Velvet Underground. He sampled, quite specifically he speaks in interviews, how he liked that song "Wild Side" but the part where he goes "And the colored girls go, Do do do..." made him feel strange. That FEELING of strangeness was then embodied by the beat itself. And then amplified/accented by the idea of a black man's voice in contrast with the white music. You being white and rapping over white music automatically misses the point. You can't know the feeling you're trying to get, so you're chasing a ghost. Obviously this is where channeling your own life frustrations into art comes in.

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Gawddam you JF!!! Why don't you just pick up a guitar like a white person is supposed to do. How dare you try to express yourself how you want. You fucking piece of shit.

but my hands are too small to play real instruments...

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I'm sure it will be the same with all the shit like Justin Bieber, Nicki, Lil Wayne, Miley Cyrus, whatever shit is on the radio these days. IMO it all sucks and pop will continue to suck forever as it always has.

i know this is an old post but... did this guy just say lil wayne sucks?

and nicki 2. some of her shit is nice as fuck. listen to Four Door something from her new album. thats some rap shit.

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Well I had to jump in, Revolution will come, not until we are all coming off the same page though, involves losing your mind quite literally, ya can't obtain consciousness whilst using your mind. If your still waking everyday looking in the mirror thinking that reflection back is actually you (you as in a general term for everyone) then the door way to this whole revolution is still miles away.

Laptops in school, is a big no-no, you can't take a child's individuality of crafting things with their hands away, there's a reason we have individual handwriting styles, over time the child will fuck their neck completely from spending all day in a shit position, no doubt needing their neck cracked back into line constantly when they're an adult. Hows there any equality in some parents not being able to afford said equipment. Cos the future in 100 years will have no monetary system, no factories, no buildings built to harness energy, negatively globally,

Children need interaction, not a fucking Ipad or computer to learn. Fuck the future If I have to read from a fucking tablet to my child each night, or watching her draw with photoshop, instead of learning how to use different paint's and other media.

And sorry but young kids making online portfolios of photographed kids ? that rings alarm bells !! too many child obsessed weirdo's that get off on strange images of kids in uniforms and certain clothing.

Kids need to learn to interact properly, and understand the world around them with no, "this is it because I'm right" mentally being dumped on the kid, that's most likely more evolved and open minded than the adult teaching there ways (And who taught them also).

In my eyes it should be respect from every generation for each other, communication where everything is not opinion based rows where nothing moves forward as both parties think they're right, we're looking in the wrong place with right or wrong, it's in the middle a simple little thing called balance. It's the point when you just know.

This is what happens with revolution at the moment unfortunately, go to about 20 mins in peeps. one reason they split, people got hurt.

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Laptops in school, is a big no-no, you can't take a child's individuality of crafting things with their hands away, there's a reason we have individual handwriting styles, over time the child will fuck their neck completely from spending all day in a shit position, no doubt needing their neck cracked back into line constantly when they're an adult. Hows there any equality in some parents not being able to afford said equipment. Cos the future in 100 years will have no monetary system, no factories, no buildings built to harness energy, negatively globally,

Children need interaction, not a fucking Ipad or computer to learn. Fuck the future If I have to read from a fucking tablet to my child each night, or watching her draw with photoshop, instead of learning how to use different paint's and other media.

How is crafting on a laptop not using your hands? You're just saying the same thing people said when typewriters came out. And kids breaking their necks looking at laptops? Dude they sit at desks all day anyways staring straight DOWN at the desk. "Instead of learning how to use paints and other media" Photoshop is another media... Equality isn't having the kids parents give buy them laptops, that's my fucking point, the government needs to give kids in Detroit laptops.

And sorry but young kids making online portfolios of photographed kids ? that rings alarm bells !! too many child obsessed weirdo's that get off on strange images of kids in uniforms and certain clothing.

No it doesn't, you're being ridiculous.

Kids need to learn to interact properly, and understand the world around them with no, "this is it because I'm right" mentally being dumped on the kid, that's most likely more evolved and open minded than the adult teaching there ways (And who taught them also).

In my eyes it should be respect from every generation for each other, communication where everything is not opinion based rows where nothing moves forward as both parties think they're right, we're looking in the wrong place with right or wrong, it's in the middle a simple little thing called balance. It's the point when you just know.

Yeah, interacting online. A 10 year old kid in a town of 10,000 going online to talk to a 10 year old in France makes the kids interact with each other and builds life-long relationships with people that they would otherwise never meet. "It should be respect from every generation" then when I want 3rd graders to help out younger kids, I'm a pedophile? That's paranoid.

We live in a "social media" age. That's "socialist". Socialism means every individual is as valid as another, so by connecting them online it's going to make people realize we are all one, which will skip right over 100 white people fighting in the street revolution, and go straight to the enlightened mind endgoal of the revolution. There's already ipads in schools. You'd rather have kids read from textbooks than just read online? Having kids in school on computers allows them to show each other what they're learning, highlight texts to explain passages of books to one another.

"I want my children carrying notebook after notebook, 70 pounds of textbooks in their backpacks as their 4' 11" bodies walk home goddamit! Also let's care about their neck health!" ...

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Laptops in school, is a big no-no, you can't take a child's individuality of crafting things with their hands away

I didn't say we would force them to stop using paper, just that we replace curriculm based learning with self-led independent studies. Computers contain all the information books do, so it's more cost and time effective to have the kids sit at ONE laptop instead of rooting through all the books in a library.

Okay, my dad is an educator, he's taught in some of the worst schools in America, and he has supported laptops in school for 25 years. He dedicated his life to getting laptops in schools. I really don't think you understand the implications of what I said. Curriculum based learning has to go. Let children go onto laptops, and read whatever they want, find themselves early, learn how to think critically. School right now is in the 19th century, paper books, top-down Teacher-Student/Master-Slave.

Online portfolios aren't accesible by the whole word, man. You let a 3rd grade take a picture of a kindergartner so that they become friends, now the kindergartners have older friends. The kindergarten teacher then organizes and scans what the individual kindergartners produce into their portfolios so the 1st grade teacher can look at the portfolios and learn about the students they'll be having the next year. Now the teachers are learning from the students and building lesson plans around them, WHICH IS WHAT TEACHERS SHOULD DO, as opposed to being handed lesson plans and rubrics by some government entity, WHICH IS JUST PROPAGANDA.

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Ha ha! thus proving my point about being on the same page and opinions.

What's your experience with kids in a school then, mine comes from working in one, and seeing grooming going on from a so called respected teacher that was copying images of kids from the school, and got caught. Everything is accessible whether you like it or not.

Just before Xmas my Partner employed a 28 year old guy to work in the care sector at our school, he was the son of another carer who is a lovely woman. The day he started, 4 police turned up and arrested him, because he had never been caught it never flagged up on the criminal record check (another fault in the system) He was the infamous Jenny Lane. A fake account set up on facebook, to lure young lads in to get images, to bribe them for sexual interaction. In fact see for yourself.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/11550276.Teenagers_tricked_and_blackmailed_into_sending_inappropriate_images/?action=complain&cid=13319102

I'm being realistic not ridiculous, you just don't agree, thus throwing into the opinion game yet again. that's reactive thinking that comes from the mind. You address everything you don't agree with and nothing else. Your reacting to what I've written proves we are still miles away from being where we need to be on this planet to make anything work. Am I still being paranoid then when I can prove it in one case that I have witnessed. not talking about 3rd grader or year 3 being a child abuser (Insert facepalm image) I'm talking about the teachers or carers that work directly with kids and your meant to trust.

Everything as I have said before is not American based, it's not about detroit, it's globally,( here we go with creating some heat but fuck it) America is the last point of securing things that have been tested in other countries, that is then put over in a way to the rest of the world publicly, that this is the way or whatever they want to program into people, it's simple every bloody name of a town or city has been nicked from every other country. It doe need renaming like, that big bit of land over there on planet earth, that used to be connected to that bit.

Your missing points big time, and reacting badly,

If you got kids fair enough

If you have worked with kids fair enough

If you have worked in a school fair enough

I don't think you have as you use your Dad's experience, nothing wrong with it but that's not your experience, and not everything is the same anywhere. And maybe look into each school, because you do have some validity with lesson plans, but it's been going on for a while it's called "Person Centered Planning". my daughter is part of this at her school, as it gets rid of all kids being expected to be the same level, that's in mainstream. And believe me I went through school refusing academic lessons and getting what I wanted, Music and art. It's not the same anywhere, and not all kids are the same.

Yeah, interacting online. A 10 year old kid in a town of 10,000 going online to talk to a 10 year old in France makes the kids interact with each other and builds life-long relationships with people that they would otherwise never meet. "It should be respect from every generation" then when I want 3rd graders to help out younger kids, I'm a pedophile? That's paranoid.

What you said here shows you take you own perception of what you read, build life long relationships with.....It's online!!!! you won't meet them!! thats my point !! for the love of god man!!

The more a kid is looking at a screen the less they are interacting with real people and learning social cue's. Body language eye contact etc.

So on the way to school this morning I asked, how would you rather learn computers or books, she answered both, (she understands balance.)

I asked how would you rather interact with people, through a laptop, or going out talking to people, she said option 2.

And off her own back she came out with, it's harder online I can't see some ones face, I don't know if they're being honest it could be anyone! the internet can't stop me when I'm face to face with my friends, if it goes down.

I asked her about the portfolio thing as well, and I got laughed at, "Dad wouldn't it be easier for the teacher to talk to me, and introduce me to other students, I don't need a folder to say who I am, I can speak for my self."

Now instead of the Laptop thing, which will not be equal, like the rich kids having the lastest Beats headphones, or Air Jordans, how about sponsorship to get the same equipment across the board for classrooms, So many huge companies could sort every school out quite easily. At least all the monitors would be the same height or adjustable. Again this is happening, as that is exactly what is going on in my daughters school.

What happens if the class shit walks over and smashes your kids laptop, the laptop is not fixed to the table, how quick can that go out the window, or get wrapped around someone's head (all of this I have seen and witnessed). And if your kid is going to school with 70 pounds of weight in their bag then teach them to pack their bag better, I'd rather they lose a book, than a whole laptop, or Ipad

I agree with you on curriculum though, the bigger picture for this is to have the kids that will readily suck up this info, turning into the type of cog the system needs to keep it ticking over, and running. When the kids are asked what would they like how would they like it, then we've got somewhere.

Is Hiphop a Joke ? not in my eyes, no other genre adapts everything around them out of nothing to create something. We're the Joke, that has abused the essence of this movement, if we can't laugh at ourselves, then the entity of Hiphop will fall to the dark side and will become Hippop. And this whole Black people White people Yellow people Blue people, getting tiresome and old, it's a bloody spacesuit to hold the light we're made from, it's not rocket science. JF has the right to Rap over what ever the fuck it wants, How the fuck do you know he wasn't Gandhi in his last life, how do you know Jay Z wasn't Hitler. I can't believe I read because he's white rapping over white music he doesn't know. I mean really, it is us that's the Joke! :lol:

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Listen, every school district has/could have child molestors. My elementary school music teacher was arrested. My 6th grade health teacher who became my highschool basketball coach got fired (some what cover-uppishly) for facebooking girls and saying "if I was 18 I'd make you my girlfriend" or whatever.

It's paranoid to assume bad things if we do action A are going to happen, so let's not do action A. People argue about "Well kids would just look at porn" not really, we can datamine what they research so they don't do that, or a million other preventive measures.

You assume I'm espousing getting rid of human interaction. I'm not. The students are in the classrooms using computers next to each other to show each other what they're learning. And your kid CAN'T have face-to-face interaction with a kid in France without money invested, so what, just have them NOT talk to french kids? Why?

The reason why you have a portfolio isn't so the teacher doesn't have to talk to the students, it's so that there's a history of what your kid's been doing in school across different subjects that teachers can learn things and sculpt lesson plans around. Children won't remember what they finger painted in 2nd grade when she's 12., but with an online portfolio, teachers can trace a students mental path.by keeping pictures and notes about what the students were interested in.

"What if a kid just breaks the laptop" Again, paranoia.
"What if I just drive my fucking SUV through a crowded playground huh? Let's ban SUVs"

I live in Oregon, Intel is 25 minutes away, my dad has tried to get sponsorships for years - NO ONE LISTENS TO HIM. Self-led learning. Independent studies, not curriculum. That's my main point, not specifically computers you can put on a lap, those are faddish anyways - probably have wrist computers soon or something.

If you think that students should be taught to the test, and that school districts should be given money according to how well those students do when the tests are written by predominately Whites, so the black innercity schools get less funding than before, you're wrong. That's how things are now, as opposed to learning what students want to learn. Education now is about testing. Education historically, when ideas like "Humanism" got invented, was all about learning for yourself. The Renaissance didn't have multiple choice scantrons and they turned out okay

edit: what the fuck are pedophiels even going to do with a bunch of pictures of a kids spelling reports and shit? It's not his swimsuit modelling portfolio, it's like that drawer you have full of tax receipts. Receipts of what the fuck they learned lol

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good lord, what the fuck happened to this thread?

isn't this in The Crates?

I know, totally correct.

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Listen, every school district has/could have child molestors. My elementary school music teacher was arrested. My 6th grade health teacher who became my highschool basketball coach got fired (some what cover-uppishly) for facebooking girls and saying "if I was 18 I'd make you my girlfriend" or whatever.

It's paranoid to assume bad things if we do action A are going to happen, so let's not do action A. People argue about "Well kids would just look at porn" not really, we can datamine what they research so they don't do that, or a million other preventive measures.

You assume I'm espousing getting rid of human interaction. I'm not. The students are in the classrooms using computers next to each other to show each other what they're learning. And your kid CAN'T have face-to-face interaction with a kid in France without money invested, so what, just have them NOT talk to french kids? Why?

The reason why you have a portfolio isn't so the teacher doesn't have to talk to the students, it's so that there's a history of what your kid's been doing in school across different subjects that teachers can learn things and sculpt lesson plans around. Children won't remember what they finger painted in 2nd grade when she's 12., but with an online portfolio, teachers can trace a students mental path.by keeping pictures and notes about what the students were interested in.

"What if a kid just breaks the laptop" Again, paranoia.

"What if I just drive my fucking SUV through a crowded playground huh? Let's ban SUVs"

I live in Oregon, Intel is 25 minutes away, my dad has tried to get sponsorships for years - NO ONE LISTENS TO HIM. Self-led learning. Independent studies, not curriculum. That's my main point, not specifically computers you can put on a lap, those are faddish anyways - probably have wrist computers soon or something.

If you think that students should be taught to the test, and that school districts should be given money according to how well those students do when the tests are written by predominately Whites, so the black innercity schools get less funding than before, you're wrong. That's how things are now, as opposed to learning what students want to learn. Education now is about testing. Education historically, when ideas like "Humanism" got invented, was all about learning for yourself. The Renaissance didn't have multiple choice scantrons and they turned out okay

edit: what the fuck are pedophiels even going to do with a bunch of pictures of a kids spelling reports and shit? It's not his swimsuit modelling portfolio, it's like that drawer you have full of tax receipts. Receipts of what the fuck they learned lol

There's a difference between paranoia and keeping kids safe, and looking at things if they will work, as I have said, I'm talking from experience, what are you on about with that paragraph before the edit ? Driving a suv and the laptop comparisom is stupid. IF YOU GOT A DESKTOP IT WOULDN'T HAVE THE CHANCE TO OCCUR, it would be bolted down, how is that paranoia ?, it's thinking about expenses

Do I really have to explain what a child abuser would do with photos okay, they will probably make a collection and act out and masturbate over the pictures for starters, if you can not see that, then I don't know!! the bribing thing that I already mentioned. I mean for gods sake man, yet again it's nothing like tax receipts, and if that's the case you telling me their folder wouldn't contain photo's of the kids, if it's purely work, yeah fair enough, but word your stuff so it don't look like that, cos that's not how I've read it, maybe why your not getting what I'm saying......no you do mean photos of their body, just re-read, sorry but I'm right on that one for sure.

it's you reading what you want out of it and completely missing the point yet again. I need a brick wall to bang my head against. :rolleyes:

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Don't tell me I read your shit wrong when you assume "online portfolios" means some pedophile fap fodder. That's fucking insane, dude. "Word my shit better" maybe you should just assume I'm not trying to turn 7 year olds into models...

Your kid isn't 25. My dad has 25 years in the biz. He's been telling me all this shit since I was 5. Which means I've spent 20 years arguing with the guy, using arguments you used here in addition to countless others. I'm not reading you wrong, I hear you. I just think that you should be able as a grown adult to analogize "laptops" with "online learning" and that if I have to sit out and spell out every little detail, then Jesus.

Critical Thinking, ODK. Is what we're both espousing - reading ideas of others, and then using what you've learned to logically deduce an opinon.

Did you think critically about my idea of "online portfolios" when you assumed it meant a bunch of children's headshots?

"Hm, online portfolios. That could mean a timeline of pictures of my children that hackers could root through. That seems like it has a lot in common with the theme of online education, I'm going to assume that's what he meant." No.

"Hm, online portfolios. That could mean a timeline of photos. It could also mean a portfolio of projects children have made in school. I'm going to critically weigh the two options and deduce that the latter is probably what he meant, considering we're talking about online education and not pedophiles".

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what I'm talking about before the edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act

"No Child Left Behind requires all public schools receiving federal funding to administer a state-wide standardized test annually to all students"

if a public school wants money in america, it has to teach to a state-wide standardized test. Thusly, schools that are bad, predominately inner-city schools, will not recieve funding because they cannot pass tests. While upper-class schools that predominately do well on tests, will receive more money. Thus widening the education gap between "good" and "bad" schools.

Public schools then have their classes revolve around subject matter that will be on those tests.

All I'm saying is "fuck that", let your kids learn what they want - no more teaching to the test.

also I love you ODK, I flip those MPC forum battles erry wednesday haha

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You should read a book called The Teacher Wars that recently came out. She shows that states knew they couldn't get funding because of the test rules but the law allowed for the individual states to set the standards so they set them pretty low so that pretty much everyone would pass. Yes, lots of schools have been shut down because of the horrible NCLB but we've had 'reform' since then with Common Core. I'm not a fan of all the testing because its not only diminishing what the kids are learning but its also driving teachers out of the profession especially first year and newer teachers, hell even some older school teachers can't take all the new measuring and data mining that the tests are supposed to be able to track them as well as the students. Shit is crazy. But we in America are crazy, especially when it comes to our kids. And our political system is completely outdated and asinine when it comes to huge national issues like say um educating the population. The only thing the federal government can do when it comes to education policy is use money as a carrot for the 50 dumb ass donkeys throughout the land. There are plenty of people in the South hell even in Southwest that would be happy as hell if federal dollars stopped coming into their kids' schools. Then they could keep white kids and black kids away from each other in different schools and pray before every school day.

By the way, I'm a huge advocate of children picking what they want to learn about and am trying to get my kids' into a Montessori school. If I was a rich fucker I'd send my kid to the Waldorf school because that shit is awesome.

I'm not trying to get into any of the back and forth between STMB's newest philosopher king and Dr. Phil so you can go back to your back and forth.

The real reason I stopped by was to post this Moodymann clip because the last thing he says is great.

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Don't tell me I read your shit wrong when you assume "online portfolios" means some pedophile fap fodder. That's fucking insane, dude. "Word my shit better" maybe you should just assume I'm not trying to turn 7 year olds into models...

Your kid isn't 25. My dad has 25 years in the biz. He's been telling me all this shit since I was 5. Which means I've spent 20 years arguing with the guy, using arguments you used here in addition to countless others. I'm not reading you wrong, I hear you. I just think that you should be able as a grown adult to analogize "laptops" with "online learning" and that if I have to sit out and spell out every little detail, then Jesus.

Critical Thinking, ODK. Is what we're both espousing - reading ideas of others, and then using what you've learned to logically deduce an opinon.

Did you think critically about my idea of "online portfolios" when you assumed it meant a bunch of children's headshots?

"Hm, online portfolios. That could mean a timeline of pictures of my children that hackers could root through. That seems like it has a lot in common with the theme of online education, I'm going to assume that's what he meant." No.

"Hm, online portfolios. That could mean a timeline of photos. It could also mean a portfolio of projects children have made in school. I'm going to critically weigh the two options and deduce that the latter is probably what he meant, considering we're talking about online education and not pedophiles".

I get what your saying I do, I can see your point, all I'm trying to say is, from being in a school, it should be desktops rather than laptops, it's just a little bit fairer and safer, I am coming from the angle that the kids I work with are full on and kick off needing 7 people to hold them, mainstream can be hard at times, but the angle I deal with is being attacked, by what ever these kids can get hold of to use as weapon, we're a non-profit charity, so everything is donations or has to go back into the care homes and school, but when you got an autistic kid that loves the sound of a screen cracking, you got to think long term, we can't help them integrate in to society otherwise. They would be wiping out every Internet Cafe in existence :lol:. I don't know about over seas but the Steiner schools are pretty cool, but yet again, the cost of putting your kid in there.

And sorry my man but I re-read, and........yeah I'm still right. look

All we need to do is get laptops in schools, you have 3rd graders take pictures of kindergartners , 8th graders make online portfolios for the kindergartners with the pictures. The kindergartners keep a portfolio of stuff they like, teachers look through these portfolios.

see what I mean.

I can't remember putting you in the vote list on the MPC, you on another name holmes?

Right lets have a look at what Sunny has posted..............yup dope!!!

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I get the concern about being bludgeoned with laptops lol; I'm way more concerned about taking curriculums/state-testing out of school than I am putting computers (possible weapons lol) in.

I mean yeah, but that's not like "modeled" photos, that's like the yearbook photo y'know. In that case it's more about the idea that every year third graders would meet kindergarteners and have to work together on a project that's going to remain with the student for the rest of their schoolyears. And then those kindergarteners become third graders three years later and say "Oh yeah I rememeber this", fun for all

Hahaha, nope, I just flip the samples same as the SP forum. I don't have the gear, yet

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Hip hop is a joke. Kids arent willing to listen to the past. You pussies are all caught up in the here and now. That no one listens hanitually to De La Soul is a joke.

nothing to be learned from hip hop.

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I mean, I love hip-hop as much as the next guy, but...can anyone dispute that there are a lot of people exploiting the art form just trying to make a quick buck? In fact, that's 99% of what the hip-hop industry is. So you can understand the resentment of people who take the time to learn the history of music and put in the hours to be able to express themselves on their instrument and then most of the market share is being taken up by Bobby Shmurda, or Jaden Smith, or the latest 17-year old piece of shit one hit wonder.

Of course, this isn't anything new for the music industry, the only difference is scale.

This

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Dude some people can just like music for the sake of it, and don't have to fact check and read a text book and play a hundred other records first before they can properly enjoy the music the "right way". It's pretentiousness like that that keeps people away from learning the history in the first place.

I learned the history of music out of joy and love, not out of pressure from assholes. If assholes had pressured me and written me off like that when I was young, chances are I would have closed off and quit.

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Dude some people can just like music for the sake of it, and don't have to fact check and read a text book and play a hundred other records first before they can properly enjoy the music the "right way". It's pretentiousness like that that keeps people away from learning the history in the first place.

I learned the history of music out of joy and love, not out of pressure from assholes. If assholes had pressured me and written me off like that when I was young, chances are I would have closed off and quit.

I guess, since I'm being quoted, I should respond here.

As far as learning the history, it frankly doesn't matter and shouldn't really be obligatory unless you're interested.

As far as the "state of hip-hop," I would maybe back off from my statement a little bit, or at least broaden the scope and just talk about music in general. The problem is not a lack of good music. There's still plenty of good music out there. The problem is getting it seen and having it be relevant to a culture that is increasingly defined in terms of "have" and "have-not." Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that this conversation is taking place amidst the backdrop of the disappearance of the middle class. The middle class existence was about being educated and cultured without being rich. Those two things are not necessarily compatible today. The problem is a deep infrastructural one. I couldn't even begin to explain it, but it has something to do with turning all the profitability of music into advertising revenue and selling music to the tech innovation sphere. But what else is new? Uber fucked the taxi industry. Airbnb is fucking hotels and landlords (admittedly, they sort of had it coming). Music's not exempt. The good part is that there's no "evil conspiracy." It's just people getting rich, same as it ever was. Once you realize that you can stop giving a fuck about it and worry about advancing the culture.

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Hip hop's not a joke, but that doesn't stop the spam idiots in Hype from trying their goddamned hardest

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